Mustafa Umut Sarac Posted July 20, 2016 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Hello there, Is there any bandoneon or bandoneon concertina maker in China ? I am looking for octave apart reeds as I found it is needed for the tango. Umut Istanbul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustafa Umut Sarac Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 Hello there, I love to listen bandoneon records from Buenos Aires Government Radio. Now I want to buy a bandoneon or what is sounded and work like it. I only know ebay but I prefer a trusted dealer who have 100 - 300 dollars range of instruments. Ebay is full with instruments but I think, dealers are faraway better option. Please give your links. Umut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustafa Umut Sarac Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 Can Reeds of Double Reed Concertina be tuned octave apart , my intention is bandoneon sound. Umut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustafa Umut Sarac Posted July 20, 2016 Author Share Posted July 20, 2016 Do bandoneon concertinas always have bandoneon sound ? Umut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemonster Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) You have to be careful. Because some "concertinas" that are shaped the same way as a bandoneon, are what in the US are called "chemnitzers." IAnd those have a different sound. They have more voices, more sets of reedblocks. And it is not the same sound as what is usually meant by "bandoneon," i.e. 2 voices, octave-tuned or just a few cents apart, one Low/one Middle. (The LM sound on accordion switches is sometimes labeled "bandoneon.") Go on youtube and keyword "chemnitzer," or "chemnitzer concertina," and you'll see what I mean. I THINK, but am NOT SURE, that some chemnitzers perhaps have switches so you could have just the LM voices for a classic bandoneon sound. Again---I'm NOT SURE on that one. "Chemnitzers" are also sometimes just called "concertinas." The whole chemnitzer-versus-bandoneon-versus-"concertina" distinction can be quite tricky on ebay, where sellers frequently don't make clear what beast it is, and may not even know. Edited July 21, 2016 by ceemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustafa Umut Sarac Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 Thank you for your help. Did German Companies produce chemnitzers ? How can I identify chemnitzers at ebay ? Umut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustafa Umut Sarac Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 Do Hohner Concertinas have bandoneon sound characteristic ? Umut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wes Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 from the few times I've attempted to play a tune on them, i would say they do not have that sound. the real problem is i don't believe they are truly designed to play music on in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken_Coles Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Multiple topics merged Friend, I know it is easy to get excited, but please do not start half a dozen threads on closely related topics. Just give your thread a general title and add posts to it. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustafa Umut Sarac Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 Thank you Ken, I researched the bandoneons long ago with great passion. I am member of few bandoneon technology groups in facebook and I am listening tango since my childhood. I first encountered with concertina term , prices and forum last night and I am very excited. Thank you merging everything. I hope few reply to few. If you know the answers , please help. thanks, Umut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustafa Umut Sarac Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 You have to be careful. Because some "concertinas" that are shaped the same way as a bandoneon, are what in the US are called "chemnitzers." IAnd those have a different sound. They have more voices, more sets of reedblocks. And it is not the same sound as what is usually meant by "bandoneon," i.e. 2 voices, octave-tuned or just a few cents apart, one Low/one Middle. (The LM sound on accordion switches is sometimes labeled "bandoneon.") Go on youtube and keyword "chemnitzer," or "chemnitzer concertina," and you'll see what I mean. I THINK, but am NOT SURE, that some chemnitzers perhaps have switches so you could have just the LM voices for a classic bandoneon sound. Again---I'm NOT SURE on that one. "Chemnitzers" are also sometimes just called "concertinas." The whole chemnitzer-versus-bandoneon-versus-"concertina" distinction can be quite tricky on ebay, where sellers frequently don't make clear what beast it is, and may not even know. Hello , What is the name of chemnitzer in germany ? Are there too many german chemnitzers out there and in e bay bandoneon lists ? What to look for to identify chemnitzer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Scannell Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Try looking here: http://bandoneon-maker.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Campin Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Is this for Argentinian tango music or the Turkish variety? I don't think the bandoneon was used much for Turkish tango music when it got established, it would be interesting to hear those old classics given an Argentinian accent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustafa Umut Sarac Posted July 21, 2016 Author Share Posted July 21, 2016 Jack, Wonderful idea, I am listening 2x4 Buenos Aires radio frequently. Turkish Tango music is composed 50 or more years ago. I did not hear any radio here played Turkish Tango over 2 decades. They make arabic music with the heavy metal guitar or up tempo always sentimental electronic music with 1 week life on tv. There are 5 to 15 million migrated mountain villagers with 18 children at each city and they demand bastard culture. They had no culture whereever they come from and they refuse whatever secular or not western culture , or Turkish Classical culture. We have excellent 1000 years old and goes back to byzantine music, classical music and its bastartized and whisky gasino music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bando_guy Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 In response to the question about repairers/dealers in china. I know of one but they are in taipai/ taiwan. http://www.accordion-taipei.tw/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atzarin Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 The link given in the message from bando_guy doesn't work. You need to take off the "/" at the end. Also check out the Taipei Accordion Bandonion Center on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bandoneon/ You won't find anything decent in the 100 - 300 dollars range. More like 1000 - 3000 dollars, will fetch something playable. Chemnitzer is the German name for that kind of instrument. Sounds different from a bandoneon as they usually have aluminium reed plates, not zinc, and can have 3 or even 4 reeds per note, with tremolo, where the reeds are tuned a few cents apart. Chemnitzers have just three rows of buttons on the right hand and the overall appearance is much flashier than a bandoneon. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemonster Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) You won't find a bandoneon for 100-300. You want to educate your ear about what a chemnitzer sounds like. You might not like it. You might prefer the traditional bandoneon sound. You want to go on youtube and keyword "solo bandoneon" and "solo chemnitzer" to try to hear the difference and get a feel for what you might like. Even bandoneons themselves, the classic "true" bandoneon sound of 2 voices LM, come in different systems. ----142 buttons, bisonoric (2 notes per button, one on the "pull" and one on the "push"): In German, this type is known as rheinische tonlage system. The 142-button rheinische tonlague bisonoric bandoneon is the one the Argentine tangueros use, prefer, and insist on for tango ---144 buttons, bisonoric (2 notes per button, one of the "pull" and one on the "push"): In German, this is known as the einheitsbandonion The 144-button enheits system can be 2-voice LM classic bandonion sound. OR it can be many-voice chemnitzer sound. So beware. If it has the classic 2-octave LM tuning, it is a bandoneon. The Argentines won't play it, and insist you can only play tango on the 142 rheinische system. This is untrue. You can play tango or anything on it. But only you can decide if you want to follow the Argentine way. Many tango enthusiasts go for the 142 because that is how they do it in Buenos Aires ---146 buttons, unisonoric (1 note per button, same on the "pull," same on the "push"): So-called "chromatic" or "chromatique" system. This system has sub-types, Such as the "Peguri" system. "Peguri" in the description means it is a subtype of "chromatique" unisonoric The French developed this to play tango without the hassle of learning 2 notes per button. Argentine maestros would insist this system does not have the authentic sound. Many Parisian virtuosos play tango on "chromas," Only you can decide. I suggest spending a long time on ebay reading and looking before making a move to try to buy anything. You will see 142 button bandoneons, 144 button bandoneons, and "chromatic" unisonoric bandoneons. You will also see cheminitzers. One way to see if it is a chemnitzer is to look for a statement as to how many reed sets, or how many voices are present. 2 voices octave-tuned, should be the classic bandoneon sound. More voices should mean it is a "chemnitzer concertina." Ebay US and Ebay UK are good for reading about bandoneons. There are lots of used bandoneons in Germany because that is where they are made, so read on Germany ebay. There are lots of used bandoneons in France because of the French history with tango, so read on French ebay. (watch out for unisonoric "chromatiques" in France" You can also look at lots of used bandoneons and see the photos and descriptions at a French sale site for used items called: https://www.leboncoin.fr you want the geographic setting, "Toute La France," to see instruments from all over the country. There are usually quite a few listings, and you can look at the photos and run the descriptions through Google Translate if you don't read French. it is a good way to get a feeling for bandoneons. There are many more used bandoneons in both Germany and France. Germany, because that is where they were made. France, because tango and bandoneon were very loved there, and to some degree still are. The trick is how to assess the quality and condition from a distance. Edited July 23, 2016 by ceemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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