Another Newcomer Asking Advice!

[David Colpitts]

And while we're on the subject....

 

I am looking for ITM on Hayden, and can't seem to find YouTube or sound examples. I have re-read a bunch of old Hayden thread here, and have found a note from Jeff about "rapid single-note melody" or similar wording. I have my two-year Elise experience, and in keys of G, D, C particularly am finding "muscle memory" seems to work....I can bash out a pretty quick St. Anne's, or Father Kelly's, and it sounds better every week. My problem will soon be deciding if I need to upgrade (to a Peacock?) or keep the rented Morse G/D anglo. So...any examples of Hayden ITM I might aspire towards? Jeff, David, Matthew, et. al.?

 

Thanks, and regards,

 

David

[David Barnert]

I am looking for ITM on Hayden, and can't seem to find YouTube or sound examples. I have re-read a bunch of old Hayden thread here, and have found a note from Jeff about "rapid single-note melody" or similar wording. I have my two-year Elise experience, and in keys of G, D, C particularly am finding "muscle memory" seems to work....I can bash out a pretty quick St. Anne's, or Father Kelly's, and it sounds better every week. My problem will soon be deciding if I need to upgrade (to a Peacock?) or keep the rented Morse G/D anglo. So...any examples of Hayden ITM I might aspire towards? Jeff, David, Matthew, et. al.?

 

To be honest, I find attempting to play ITM on the Hayden to be unrewarding. I have not found a way to satisfyingly use the left hand. Perhaps I have not put enough work into it, but I prefer to focus my efforts elsewhere.

[JimLucas]

I am looking for ITM on Hayden, and can't seem to find YouTube or sound examples.

 

I'm afraid you're entering uncharted territory. While there may be others exploring Irish music on duets (I've heard that there may be a couple of Maccann players in Ireland), I don't know of any who have produced "maps", i.e., recordings or notation.

 

I have re-read a bunch of old Hayden thread here, and have found a note from Jeff about "rapid single-note melody" or similar wording. I have my two-year Elise experience, and in keys of G, D, C particularly am finding "muscle memory" seems to work....I can bash out a pretty quick St. Anne's, or Father Kelly's, and it sounds better every week. My problem will soon be deciding if I need to upgrade (to a Peacock?) or keep the rented Morse G/D anglo.

 

To me, this raises additional questions. Just what sort of style are you hoping to develop on the duet? You'll probably find a similar lack of resources for the G/D anglo. Contemporary Irish anglo playing is dominated by the C/G anglo. (If other keys are used, it's generally to transpose the entire tradition, not to play the same tunes in the same keys as the C/G.) If you want to sound like a contemporary Irish anglo player, then with anything other than a C/G you'll be a trailblazer... a leader, not a follower. (But regarding the duet, I'll make some suggestions, below.)

 

If you're not concerned about imitating an anglo, you might try working with some resources for guitar or bouzouki, which sometimes play straight melody, sometimes chords, and sometimes a combination. (With a low C in your left hand on the Hayden, you should have the necessary range and more.) But again, you'll essentially be on your own, and it will require considerable effort before you'll know whether you can be satisfied with the result.

 

To be honest, I find attempting to play ITM on the Hayden to be unrewarding. I have not found a way to satisfyingly use the left hand. Perhaps I have not put enough work into it, but I prefer to focus my efforts elsewhere.

Is there any Irish tradition that separates melody and harmony/chords on a single instrument? My understanding is that more often than not Irish players of the various accordions just don't use the left-hand chords, or at least very sparsely. If your mindset is to give the two hands equal prominence, then it might be inherently difficult to get something that "feels" Irish. (No, I don't think this is inconsistent with things I've said previously about Irish style, but I believe any further discussion of that should have its own thread.) Guitars and harps may do more complex arrangements, but on those instruments the melody and its accompaniment both use both hands.

 

But that brings me to suggesting a pair of different approaches: Anglo players talk about "cross row" playing; I think a related concept on duets could be "cross hand" playing, with two different ways to approach it.

• The first is to simply use the duet the way "melody only" is often done on the anglo: Split the scale between the two hands, with the upper notes in the right hand and the lower notes in the left. The crossover point could be chosen just as where the melody exceeds the range of the particular hand, or (in the case of significant overlap) it could be chosen separately for each tune or even phrase. A few harmony notes or octave bits could also be thrown in, especially if the melody is mainly in the right hand. (Frank Edgley's tutor for the anglo has some nice examples.)
• The second approach is more radical, but could support faster playing, at least in the lower range of tunes: In the region of overlap (greater on instruments with more buttons), alternate between the hands, making essentially equal use of all the buttons. This could -- but doesn't have to -- be done in strict alternation between the hands. Other patterns of alternation could be a phrase at a time, every few notes, or just whenever needed to avoid awkward fingerings. This is an approach I've experimented with, and I think it shows great promise, but it will also take a great deal of practice, and I've so far been concentrating my efforts elsewhere.

One other possibility, which I rather like although it's not particularly traditional, is to play the melody in octaves, parallel in the two hands. The effect is not really the same as a double-reeded concertina, but I think it suits. It also lends itself to being varied by sparse bits of harmony.

 

But I'll repeat... if either of you Davids choose any of these approaches on your duet, you'll be on your own in developing it.

[David Colpitts]

Thanks, David and Jim.....you both provided crucial insights to me (and perhaps others, though I am self-conscious of "thread drift" and not sure if I am still in the correct place.) Anyway;

 

David, the light came on for me regarding the left hand. In my case, I don't care about engaging my left hand in my Irish sessions, save the episodic single note or very rare almost instant chord the more traditional concertinists honk. I know I won't sound like that, and am really concentrating on getting up to speed on the tunes, just to play along, perhaps more accordion-like than concertina-like, in light of the hybrid (accordion) reeds of the Elise.

 

And, Jim, you give much food for thought and your additional questions are spot-on. In fact, I won't sound like the aforementioned concertinists on the C/G. I have a brain-block about systematic cross-rowing, with only a recent glimmerr of hope that I'll learn how to play in other than the keys "stamped" on the box. Hence, the G/D, so I can learn tunes in the group in the correct keys. What I hadn't thought about was analogies to other instruments, such as the strings you suggested. Again, I am not (cerrtainly at this stage) thinking about much besides the tunes, and I have quietly admired the banjo players who seem to hit every note cleanly and crisply, with simple, elegant ornamentations, triplets et. al. So that helps me clarify the goal of fluidity in my play. In fact, my personal goal is to be able to play without much conscious thougt of what buttons, as if it were an extension of my brain, just as I sing without thinking of buttons, but merely try to hit "the notes in my head."

As far as cross-handing, I do so to find the low notes in the tunes I need, and for other genres than ITM I am beginning to do simple chording, for which the duet is perfectly suited, and that alone is worth the price of admission for folk stuff, Quebecois, gospel, hymns, Americana; really all I try except Irish.

 

So thanks, gentlemen. Again, what a great and supportive community this is.

 

Regards,

 

David

[Patrick Scannell]

If you like the sound of Irish Piano Accordion (Youtube has examples), you can emulate that. Your Elise is more than just a concertina. It is also a compact free bass chromatic button accordion.

[David Colpitts]

Yes, sir. It is, indeed. It is perhaps the best four hundred bucks I ever spent!

 

Thanks.

 

David