Vallorbe Needle Files

[SteveS]

I'm thinking about ordering some Vallorbe needle files for tuning.

Does anyone have experience of these files?

I'm thinking half-round in cutting grades 0,2,4,6, where 0 is coarse.

They're quite expensive, so I'd thought I'd solicit opinions before I buy.

Edited December 18, 2015 by SteveS

[alex_holden]

This snapshot shows what the tuner at Wheatstones was using in the British Pathe film. It looks to me like an 8" single cut smooth flat hand file (without a handle!).

 

You can briefly see it in use here: https://youtu.be/4LFBNlildjA?t=1m33s

 

Somewhere I can't find right now I have seen a photo of a different traditional maker using a virtually identical file - it might not have been 8" but it was definitely flat and much bigger than a needle file.

 

It's obvious how to remove metal from the tip of a reed with a large flat file, but I speculate that it is also possible to remove metal from the belly with the same file, by supporting the relevant area from underneath with a narrow, possibly breasted, shim and allowing the unsupported tip to flex out of the way.

[Don Taylor]

Interesting that there are two reed holders.

 

Maybe they tune in unison by beat counting: one reference reed and the other the reed being tuned?

 

I guess they did not have an electronic tuner...

[alex_holden]

Interesting that there are two reed holders.

Maybe they tune in unison by beat counting: one reference reed and the other the reed being tuned?

I believe that is correct.

[banjojohn]

I would have thought that a file of the type shown in the photo above, even in 'smooth cut' would be too course for tuning an existing reed. Surely a file such as this would only be used for removing large amounts of metal, during the initial 'thining down' stage of a 'new' reed tongue. I have found that 600 and 800 grit wet and dry papers are about right for fine tuning purposes. Cut the paper into 6mm wide strips and glue to small (say 6mm square) wooden sticks.

[Chris Ghent]

Vallorbe Grobet files are great but I find needle files are unnecessarily small. If I was only going to buy one file it would be a six inch 3 square, They have the advantage they are tapered and consequently can handle tiny reeds as well as large and as they have three sides you get a lot of filing out of them. Having said that, if you are only tuning you would not want anything the slightest bit coarse. A medium diamond file is as good as anything.

 

Back in the day the Wheatstone film was made it was a file or nothing.

[alex_holden]

I believe the stage pictured was initial tuning, not profiling. There was probably additional fine tuning done later after installing the reeds in an instrument.

[SteveS]

I'd thought coarse file for removing lots of material (eg when tuning large reeds to concert pitch) then fine file for fine tuning.

I've used fine wet-and-dry on a stick before now but find that I frequently have to replace the paper as it wears.

I like to use a curved file on the heel end of the reed, and a flat file on the tongue end.

 

Alex, I've seen the film you mentioned several times - I'd also thought it was initial tuning that was portrayed.

[Chris Ghent]

He looks to me as if he is doing a fine tune on a reed which is maybe 20-30 cents out. You could see the initial tuning happening on the surface grinder.

[Mike Acott]

I concur with Chris except I prefered the 8inch size,number 2 cut.

[Lester Bailey]

I don't tune concertinas but have done more than my fair share of melodeon/accordion reeds. I use these Vallorbe Saw Files 6" slim.

I note in the original post SteveS talked about half round files this seems like a really bad idea as it would not allow the reed to be thinned across its whole profile. YMMV

Edited December 20, 2015 by Lester Bailey

[Dana Johnson]

How a file cuts depends a huge amount on how much pressure you use. I use a 10 inch mill bastard file to fit the edges on my reeds and can remove microscopic amounts with great control. I do use flat diamond files or 320-600 grit tiny abrasive EDM sticks when tuning, primarily for the lack of scratches in the results to avoid places that might crack eventually, but when I do use a file, I find the smooth cut files work quite well. The flat form is actually quite versatile and will do the whole job if you learn how to vary the pressure side to side across the width of the file. Reed steel is hard enough that if you don't apply some pressure, it won't want to be cut. Longer files give better control than short ones, though for the smallest reeds, I will go to a 4 inch warding file around number 1or 2 just to be able to see the thing. I was surprised at how smooth a cut can be produced even with a coarser file. Though I have a lot of them, I have never found any needle files that are useful to me in reed making.

Dana

[alex_holden]

Thanks Dana, very useful advice as ever. Happy Christmas!