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Lachenal 31B Anglo - Date Of Manufacture?


griffinga

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... it was said in the 1870s that the German concertina was at the height of its popularity in the 1860s and that the German accordion/melodeon took over from it in the '70s ...

I'm not sure who Stephen is referring to on his referred notion of 1860s popularity.

 

I can't remember the source of that myself, offhand, Dan - though I think it was probably from the introduction to an 1870's tutor for the German accordion/melodeon. But it is something that I've mentioned several times before - I'll have a hunt and see if I can track it down...

 

No matter, Stephen. If they were writing only in the 1870s they could have little idea that the golden age was still ahead of them. I don't think even the duets came around until the 1880s (except for Wheatstone's failed experiment).

Just a random thought, but if one were to count all the handmade concertinas being built today, it is probably on the order of magnitude of say a couple of hundred per year. That number is very likely dwarfed by all the Scholas and Rochelles and Jacks and Jackies and Klingendahls and such from the small factories in China, Italy, and until recently East Germany. One can go to maybe a fifth of the music shops in the USA and find a cheap two row concertina for sale, to this day...so there is a fairly large number of cheap instruments on the market. That may -- perhaps -- be somewhat similar to the comparison of the 400,000 cheap factory made German concertinas to the 5000 English made concertinas per year in 1876.

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My best information is from handwriting inside a small-bodied (5 1/2 inches acrros the ends) 30-key in Bb/F. The serial number is No. 187243. It says "Led the troops into Armentieres, 13 October - 2 November 1914".

 

Of course, the owner could have purchased it well before marching off to the trenches in 1914. But from the other information that I have, I think that there is a good chance that the purchase was in 1913 or 1914. Thus, I would estimate the year of manufacture for No. 188334 as circa 1915.

 

I wonder if you are talking about No. 137243 which differs from the number you cite in only one digit? It has been

featured here before, with pictures - one of which I enclose and which shows pretty much the text you quote:

 

post-11382-0-34290800-1449397158_thumb.jpg

 

I have the instrument in front of me, and have just belted out 'Back to the Army Again' and 'Liliburlero' - just because

I can!

 

I was privileged to become the custodian of this really rather splendid little instrument a few months ago, and the

previous custodian passed on to me the information he had. Briefly, it looks as if the instrument may have belonged

to Pte. A. Lewis who was with a Liverpool regiment, and who went to war with the original BEF in late 1914, and who

was invailded out in early 1915. This is conjecture, but looks possible. I hope to be able to research this further

when I can get easier access to the Imperial War Museum branch in Manchester (Salford?) - possibly early in 2016.

This is all a bit OT, but how does that revised(?) serial number affect the dating query which was the original subject

of this thread?

 

I don't know, but I had assumed (using the two formulae which I have found, and Randall Merris' data) that No. 137243

probably(?) dates from some time during the five-or-so years before the start of the Great War? I have also seen

the currently unrestored No. 197287 which, based on anecdotal evidence from the present owner, dates to about

1926(?). So, 188*** is going to come roughly some time between the end of the Great War and the mid-1920's?

 

FWIW, and completely OT (again!), No. 137243 is a lovely thing - my favourite concertina!

 

Roger.

Edited by lachenal74693
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I wonder if you are talking about No. 137243 which differs from the number you cite in only one digit? It has been

featured here before, with pictures - one of which I enclose and which shows pretty much the text you quote:

 

D'you know, I had a memory of that earlier thread, and thought it was probably the same instrument. In fact I tried to find the thread by searching the forum on "Armentières"/"Armentieres" and "187243" but it didn't show up - however, I have now found it by using the wrong spelling "Armentiers" that's inside the concertina, it's Message In A Concertina

 

Presumably it is the same instrument, in which case the serial number is 50,000 lower than as reported to Randy, which is an easy mistake but a helluva difference... :blink:

Edited by Stephen Chambers
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Presumably it is the same instrument, in which case the serial number is 50,000 lower than as reported to Randy, which is an easy mistake but a helluva difference... :blink:

 

I reported the instrument to Randy soon after acquiring it - with the correct serial number...

 

I hope he does not now have a 'bogus' and misleading duplicate entry in his database?

 

I presume he reads this forum (user rmerris?) and will see this exchange and thus be alerted

to the possibility?

 

This dating business does my head in! I have learned very quickly to be suitably 'vague'

when asked about the age of my five 'vintage' instruments.

 

Roger

Edited by lachenal74693
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I reported the instrument to Randy soon after acquiring it - with the correct serial number...

 

I hope he does not now have a 'bogus' and misleading duplicate entry in his database?

 

I presume he reads this forum (user rmerris?) and will see this exchange and thus be alerted

to the possibility?

 

He is user "Dowright" these days, and I guess he may well "now have a 'bogus' and misleading duplicate entry in his database"...

 

Edited to add quotation marks

Edited by Stephen Chambers
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Thanks for pointing out my mistake. Here is the story:

I originally got the information, more than a decade ago, from a concertina dealer who has been very reliable in providing information on a number of Lachenals. However, he mistakenly read the '3' as an '8' and gave me No. 187243. The footnote to my original entry shows all the information about THIS INSTRUMENT PLAYED TROUPS INTO BATTLE AT ARMENTIERES, Private A. Lewis, 71st Battalion, etc. (The bellows frame contains a listing of other battles: Seine, Aucre, Asine,Yesev, and Marne.)

I quickly viewed the concertina.net posting in 2014 but, since no serial number was given, I did not recognize that it was the same concertina. I did not pay enough attention to the '"Pvt. A. Lewis" to see if it was in my database.

A subsequent purchaser of the instrument then sent me the No. 137243, and I mistakenly entered it in my database without further consideration.

I need to remove the No. 187243 and do considerable reworking of my assumptions for dating 20th century Anglo Lachenals. (My nemesis is late-period Anglos: I have an easier time in estimating for Englishes and Maccann and Crane duets and for earlier-period Anglos.)

Here are a few thoughts:

No. 137243 dates from about 1894. I have the receipt--which is shown somewhere here in concertina.net--for No. 140871 (32 key) dated Oct. 1895. So 20 years before Armentieres, Private Lewis would have bought the concertina or, more likely, he was the 2nd or 3rd owner.

Here is a little info:

No. 169404. Handwritten "T. Walpole, 58 Everton Brow, Liverpool , July 24, 1903." (20 key in Bb/F, wood fret, bone buttons, steel reeds 5-fold).

No. 169101. Bill of sale by retailer Rushworth and Draper, February 27, 1906. (30 key in C/G, wood fret, bone buttons, steel reeds, 6-fold).

Note the chronology of 2-1/2-year later sale of a lower number, which is consistent with what Stephen has said concerning that Lachenals probably were not always completed in the order of the serial numbers and (2) Rushworth and Draper may have had the concertina in inventory for some time.

 

Using 28,000 instruments (197000 minus169000) over a 22-1/2 year period (mid-1903 to end-1925), gives an estimate of annual productiion of 1244, or about 1200-1250 per year. Hopefully, better and more complete estimates to follow in the future. DOWRIGHT, GET IT DONE!

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Hey Randy, it looks like we could have a verified date of sale around August 1916 for # 184335 - though that's assuming there's a lead digit '1' missing from the reported number - whadja bet? ;)

 

You might want to get onto the Australian War Memorial and query the serial number for RELAWM07996.002 in their collection...

 

There's a thread, with links, about it here: http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=18330&p=174411

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