What Is Liam Playing?

[Wendy PNW]

Hello -- I've never played a concertina but am intent on learning and I think the type in this video is what I want to learn. Is this a 30 button English? Thanks for any input.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nxJaeh_cQA

[Greg Jowaisas]

English concertina. Most likely a Wheatstone Aeola. At least 48 buttons. But you could probably play Liam's arrangement on a 30 or 40 button instrument.

 

Greg

Edited November 28, 2015 by Greg Jowaisas

[JimLucas]

Hello -- I've never played a concertina but am intent on learning and I think the type in this video is what I want to learn. Is this a 30 button English? Thanks for any input.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nxJaeh_cQA

 

Definitely an English. Also definitely more than 30 buttons, but for the accompaniment he's doing a 30-button Jackie should suffice.

 

With 8-sided ends, it's an Aeola, Wheatstone's top model. From the size, I suspect it's a tenor-treble (going down to C below middle C), but his accompaniment isn't even using the lowest notes of a treble, which goes down to the G below middle C. (The 30-button Jackie is a treble, though 48 buttons is the traditional standard.) With his hands hiding the "lower" buttons, it's hard to be sure whether it's a treble or tenor-treble, but I believe I count seven bellows folds, which would also indicate a tenor-treble.

 

His accompaniment style on this piece has similarities to a style often used by Lou Killen, who was apparently touring with him and his brothers at the time this video was made. I think it may even have been Louis who got Liam started on the concertina, though I'm not sure about that.

 

(I see Greg posted while I was composing my post. I'm glad we agree. )

[Wendy PNW]

English concertina. Most likely a Wheatstone Aeola. At least 48 buttons. But you could probably play Liam's arrangement on a 30 or 40 button instrument.

 

Greg

Thanks, that was quick! It's not so much his arrangement of this particular song I hope to learn, but rather this "general" sound/style -- sweet tune, simple harmony. Would a 30 button model be as good a place to start as any, or are there reasons to start with a model with more buttons? The more I poke around here I see there is a ton of information -- but I suppose the best way to start playing is to just start playing...?

[Wendy PNW]

 

Hello -- I've never played a concertina but am intent on learning and I think the type in this video is what I want to learn. Is this a 30 button English? Thanks for any input.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nxJaeh_cQA

 

Definitely an English. Also definitely more than 30 buttons, but for the accompaniment he's doing a 30-button Jackie should suffice.

 

With 8-sided ends, it's an Aeola, Wheatstone's top model. From the size, I suspect it's a tenor-treble (going down to C below middle C), but his accompaniment isn't even using the lowest notes of a treble, which goes down to the G below middle C. (The 30-button Jackie is a treble, though 48 buttons is the traditional standard.) With his hands hiding the "lower" buttons, it's hard to be sure whether it's a treble or tenor-treble, but I believe I count seven bellows folds, which would also indicate a tenor-treble.

 

His accompaniment style on this piece has similarities to a style often used by Lou Killen, who was apparently touring with him and his brothers at the time this video was made. I think it may even have been Louis who got Liam started on the concertina, though I'm not sure about that.

 

(I see Greg posted while I was composing my post. I'm glad we agree. )

 

 

Thanks! My absolute favorite Liam Clancy concertina song is "Ar Éirinn Ní Neosfainn Cé Hí," which never fails to break my heart. Do your comments apply to that as well?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayOVvGZjZu8

[JimLucas]

Thanks! My absolute favorite Liam Clancy concertina song is "Ar Éirinn Ní Neosfainn Cé Hí," which never fails to break my heart. Do your comments apply to that as well?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayOVvGZjZu8

"For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name". One of my favorite airs. Do you understand the Irish? I wish I did.

 

On that, Liam is just playing the melody with a little ornamentation. Well within the range of a 30-button Jackie, and no special fingering required.

 

I will repeat the usual advice that even at the beginning you should get the best instrument you can afford.

[Wendy PNW]

"For Ireland I'd Not Tell Her Name". One of my favorite airs. Do you understand the Irish? I wish I did.

 

On that, Liam is just playing the melody with a little ornamentation. Well within the range of a 30-button Jackie, and no special fingering required.

 

I will repeat the usual advice that even at the beginning you should get the best instrument you can afford.

 

 

Unfortunately the Irish is complete, well, Irish to me. Of the assorted English translations I've found online, this is one of the more awkward -- based on that alone I'd assume it's at least fairly literal, but mind you that's just an assumption.

 

http://www.makem.com/lyrics/lyricpage/aneirinn.php

[Don Taylor]

On that, Liam is just playing the melody with a little ornamentation. Well within the range of a 30-button Jackie, and no special fingering required.

 

I will repeat the usual advice that even at the beginning you should get the best instrument you can afford.

Simply, but beautifully played on a wonderful instrument.

 

It would only be fair to point out that although the Jackie is a good beginner's instrument it's sound is nowhere near as fine as an Aeola, which would cost at least 10x as much as a Jackie.

 

For another fine sounding Aeola played simply but beautifully, check out David Hansen's videos on Youtube:

David Hansen's YouTube channel

 

David is playing a treble (48 button) instrument, the Jackie's range is the bottom subset of this Aeola, less a few duplicated accidentals.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Don Taylor

[David Barnert]

It would only be fair to point out that although the Jackie is a fine beginner's instrument it's sound is nowhere near as fine as an Aeola, which would cost at least 10x as much as a Jackie.

A reasonable compromise might be the Morse Albion, 37 buttons, from the Button Box. More satisfying to play than the Jackie, less expensive than a traditional instrument with concertina reeds.

 

For another fine sounding Aeola played simply but beautifully, check out David Hansen's videos on Youtube:

David Hansen's YouTube channel

 

His recording of "The Clergy's Lamentation" is a bit disorienting. It sounds fine, but the unplayed guitar is visible behind him while playing the concertina, yet it can be heard being played at the same time on another track.

[JimLucas]

Unfortunately the Irish is complete, well, Irish to me. Of the assorted English translations I've found online, this is one of the more awkward -- based on that alone I'd assume it's at least fairly literal, but mind you that's just an assumption.

 

http://www.makem.com/lyrics/lyricpage/aneirinn.php

Yes, it does appear to be a direct translation, not attempting to be singable. The note below that translation interests me:

 

Verses and translation as given in Mary O'Hara A Song for Ireland. Her notes:

"The melody of this song has travelled far. Clondillon relates hearing a Roumanian folk singer sing the tune believing it to be a Roumanian folksong. Perhaps some soldier of fortune belonging to the Wild Geese had the gift of song!"

 

An Armenian friend told me that one of the most known and respected families in Armenia was/is the Ohanessian family, descended from an Irish father and son named O'Hennessey who fought in the Crimean War and then settled in Armenia rather than return home. It seems reasonable that they weren't the only ones to stay behind and that other countries in the region -- e.g., Roumania -- received their share. I will say that I do believe that the same tune can be composed independently more than once, but if this one is atypical in the Roumanian tradition, then an Irish origin seems reasonable.

 

For what it's worth: I've been told that the song is an allegory, with the beautiful maiden representing Ireland herself. I don't know if there's a historical basis for that interpretation of this particular song, except that the same has been said of a number of other Irish songs, with such an image apparently in common use during the times of suppression, when even expressing support for an Irish Ireland was a punishable offense.

[Wendy PNW]

Simply, but beautifully played on a wonderful instrument.

 

It would only be fair to point out that although the Jackie is a good beginner's instrument it's sound is nowhere near as fine as an Aeola, which would cost at least 10x as much as a Jackie.

 

For another fine sounding Aeola played simply but beautifully, check out David Hansen's videos on Youtube:

David Hansen's YouTube channel

 

David is playing a treble (48 button) instrument, the Jackie's range is the bottom subset of this Aeola, less a few duplicated accidentals.

 

 

Thank you very much for the link. So much beautiful music, and the photos make me want to pack a bag.

[Wendy PNW]

What is it that makes a Jackie sound sort of wheezy/gaspy and... I don't know... nasal (?) compared to a really fine instrument? What role does the number of bellows folds play? How about materials? Reeds?

 

Opinions about the best 30-key how-to books?

Edited November 28, 2015 by Wendy PNW

[Wendy PNW]

 

Unfortunately the Irish is complete, well, Irish to me. Of the assorted English translations I've found online, this is one of the more awkward -- based on that alone I'd assume it's at least fairly literal, but mind you that's just an assumption.

 

http://www.makem.com/lyrics/lyricpage/aneirinn.php

Yes, it does appear to be a direct translation, not attempting to be singable. The note below that translation interests me:

 

Verses and translation as given in Mary O'Hara A Song for Ireland. Her notes:

"The melody of this song has travelled far. Clondillon relates hearing a Roumanian folk singer sing the tune believing it to be a Roumanian folksong. Perhaps some soldier of fortune belonging to the Wild Geese had the gift of song!"

 

An Armenian friend told me that one of the most known and respected families in Armenia was/is the Ohanessian family, descended from an Irish father and son named O'Hennessey who fought in the Crimean War and then settled in Armenia rather than return home. It seems reasonable that they weren't the only ones to stay behind and that other countries in the region -- e.g., Roumania -- received their share. I will say that I do believe that the same tune can be composed independently more than once, but if this one is atypical in the Roumanian tradition, then an Irish origin seems reasonable.

 

For what it's worth: I've been told that the song is an allegory, with the beautiful maiden representing Ireland herself. I don't know if there's a historical basis for that interpretation of this particular song, except that the same has been said of a number of other Irish songs, with such an image apparently in common use during the times of suppression, when even expressing support for an Irish Ireland was a punishable offense.

 

 

The notion that this song could be allegorical makes a great deal of sense to me, based on what seems to be a mismatch between the emotional "weight" of the tune vs. that of the lyrics (and again, assuming the translation at makem.com is literal).

[Wendy PNW]

 

It would only be fair to point out that although the Jackie is a fine beginner's instrument it's sound is nowhere near as fine as an Aeola, which would cost at least 10x as much as a Jackie.

A reasonable compromise might be the Morse Albion, 37 buttons, from the Button Box. More satisfying to play than the Jackie, less expensive than a traditional instrument with concertina reeds.

 

Looks like if I buy a Jackie from the Button Box, I can return it later and apply the price to a new upgrade. I'm currently leaning in that direction.

[David Barnert]

Opinions about the best 30-key how-to books?

 

I think the Jackie and Jack are the only 30-button EC's out there (maybe some other Chinese cheapies) and the only book on the subject would be the one that comes with them.

 

But there's plenty of material for EC's in general, primarily 48-buttons. Much of that will apply to the 30 as well.

[Wendy PNW]

 

Opinions about the best 30-key how-to books?

 

I think the Jackie and Jack are the only 30-button EC's out there (maybe some other Chinese cheapies) and the only book on the subject would be the one that comes with them.

 

But there's plenty of material for EC's in general, primarily 48-buttons. Much of that will apply to the 30 as well.

 

 

Thanks! Still waffling on whether to go in for a penny or a pound, not only in terms of pennies and pounds but also buttons, but I do feel like I'm close to getting off the pot (not to mix metaphors...). I'm sure I'll soon have my hands on an actual concertina and will no doubt be pestering you all with much more specific and practical questions.

[Mike Franch]

I started with a Jackie and loved it, but soon ran into notes that I wanted but didn't have. I notice that the Button Box has some used Morse Albions for about $2000. If you're primarily interested in folk music, those 37 buttons are all you'd need.

 

Interestingly, you could buy a vintage Wheatstone or good Lachenal for less than a new Morse. That gets into pluses and minuses that are a whole new discussion. If I were just starting out, and had the money, I think I'd go for a used Morse.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Mike Franch

[Wendy PNW]

I started with a Jacki and loved it, but soon ran into notes that I wanted but didn't have. I notice that the Button Box has some used Morse Albions for about $2000. If you're primarily interested in folk music, those 37 buttons are all you'd need.

 

Interestingly, you could buy a vintage Wheatstone or good Lachenal for less than a new Morse. That gets into pluses and minuses that are a whole new discussion. If I were just starting out, and had the money, I think I'd go for a used Morse.

 

Thanks! Your mention of plusses, minuses, and whole new discussions actually made me chuckle. Over the past few days as I've been starting to do fairly serious (yet so far strictly armchair) research, it's become apparent that the subject of concertinas gets complicated quickly.

 

Having not yet so much as laid a finger on a concertina, I am currently only thinking about folk music, played alone and by ear (and with, therefore, a certain amount of leeway with keys). A Jackie would no doubt be entirely adequate. I can imagine, though, eventually wanting to play with other people and/or playing from notation or tablature -- in which case I'd want an instrument with a greater range than what I might need simply playing the tunes I have in my head.

 

Then again, maybe what I really want is a duet. Better yet, one of everything.