Building A Concertina Case, Using Contact Cement?

[richard]

Hello

 

I am building a concertina case. I had a skilled artisan make the wooden box and I am finishing the exterior and creating a padded interior. I am doing my best to make a functional padded interior that doesn't look too sloppy and unprofessional and it is a real challenge.

 

My question is in regards to using contact cement which I assume is widely used in this type of project. Does the odor and vapors of the contact cement dissipate and disappear eventually over a few days? It seems like that is what is happening. I guess the solvent is slowly evaporating. Is that so.

 

My concern is that the fumes of the cement will continue to be present and do damage to the concertina when it is locked up inside the box. I am concerned about the varnishes, rubber materials and anything that the solvent of contact cement might react with. Is this a concern or do all the vapors evaporate after a few days of exposure to the air?

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

[Mike Pierceall]

Hello

 

I am building a concertina case. I had a skilled artisan make the wooden box and I am finishing the exterior and creating a padded interior. I am doing my best to make a functional padded interior that doesn't look too sloppy and unprofessional and it is a real challenge.

 

My question is in regards to using contact cement which I assume is widely used in this type of project. Does the odor and vapors of the contact cement dissipate and disappear eventually over a few days? It seems like that is what is happening. I guess the solvent is slowly evaporating. Is that so.

 

My concern is that the fumes of the cement will continue to be present and do damage to the concertina when it is locked up inside the box. I am concerned about the varnishes, rubber materials and anything that the solvent of contact cement might react with. Is this a concern or do all the vapors evaporate after a few days of exposure to the air?

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

I think that contact cement is a little heavy handed for attaching lining in a case. I tack the lining in place and only use craft paste to attach panels that might sag. I use a minimum of material and concentrate on the fit of the case. This is a video I made of my case building. Here:

[Chris Ghent]

Contact does not tarnish metal in my experience but some if not most PVA does. I put blobs of several brands of PVA on a piece of polished nickel silver once trying to track the source of the tarnishing and afterwards used the only one which did not tarnish a wider area than the blob. Contact smells will evaporate, but Mike's points are good.

[Mike Pierceall]

Contact does not tarnish metal in my experience but some if not most PVA does. I put blobs of several brands of PVA on a piece of polished nickel silver once trying to track the source of the tarnishing and afterwards used the only one which did not tarnish a wider area than the blob. Contact smells will evaporate, but Mike's points are good.

Starch-based paste is my choice over PVA for linings but it may not work with all materials. I prefer using organic adhesives although I do use wood glue (PVA) for the case construction.

[Don Taylor]

Is PVA ok for gluing valves on metal-ended concertina?

[OLDNICKILBY]

I have found Wall Paper Paste super for this job In thew U K, Solvite Heavy Duty if available

[Mike Pierceall]

Is PVA ok for gluing valves on metal-ended concertina?

I've never heard of a PVA-free requirement for metal-ended concertinas, but then again I've never owned one of those. PVA is used in case construction, various aspects of bellows construction and various repairs. I've used it mainly for case construction and thumbstraps, but I use fish glue for attaching valves.

[d.elliott]

Is PVA ok for gluing valves on metal-ended concertina?

 

 

I would not use PVA for valves if I had an alternative like a gum Arabic or shellac. No for fear of tarnish, but because it makes the changing of the valves nest time round a difficult and possibly destructive process

 

Dave

[Jack Campin]

I have used contact adhesive in cases for wind instruments. Never again. The fumes take months rather than days to go away and wrecked the finish on one of my quenas.

 

PVA is just as bad in a different way, outgassing acetic acid to corrode metal.

 

Gorilla Glue (the stuff that froths up when it gets wet) works well, if you can apply it thinly and evenly enough.

[Chris Ghent]

Is PVA ok for gluing valves on metal-ended concertina?

PVA is OK for valves (though harder to clean off when changing valves. If you find yourself in this position place new PVA on top of the old hard PVA and stir with a small screwdriver, the old PVA will soften and you can scrape it off), I don't think the small amount used for a valve would upset an end but if you are worried just leave it out of the case for a while and cycle the bellows occasionally.

 

Any glue will stop outgassing after a while. When I have blocked up a case I leave it sitting for a week with the lid open. The issue I had with PVA related to a new case with a lot of PVA holding linings on, and newly polished Nickel Silver. I suspect an older slightly tarnished metal end would have more resistance to it.

[adrian brown]

I'd use hot hide glue for both jobs (rabbit skin glue is my favourite). It's cheap, easy to use, is completely reversible and it gives you the possibility of repositioning. For linings, you need to have it quite weak, but not so weak that is seeps through the lining material, so it's a good idea to experiment a little with some scraps before doing the job. You don't need to have a special glue pot for this, just put some glue granules in a jam jar, cover with twice as much water and leave until the granules have swollen to a jelly like consistency (about 2-3 hours). Then drain any excess water, put the jam jar in a saucepan of boiled water and stir the glue until it is has a good consistency. You can now add extra water to thin it as required. (For attaching values, I'd use it thicker than for a case lining.)

 

Adrian

[RWL]

I used contact cement when I built the case for my Edeophone. I wasn't satisfied with how it held the cloth to the case, so I'm interested in learning what others use to attach the outer cloth as well as the inner liner. It did take quite awhile to off gas, but I don't recall how long.

 

I did want to comment that you can put small amounts of hide glue in a baby food or similar sized jar, and microwave the contents. Start with 20 seconds and repeat with additional 10 second additional "blasts" until it's the right temperature. You don't want to boil it however. When you're done, put it in the freezer to keep. I haven't figured out why some jars of glue crack when frozen and others don't.

 

For my inner liner, I glued 1/8" closed cell foam to shirt cardboard, and then covered that with ultrasuede fabric. These 'panels' were then lightly glued to the inside of the case. I covered my blocks with suede and then screwed them in place from the inside of the case. My case walls are 1/2" plywood. It's way too heavy and I wouldn't use that again.

Edited November 4, 2015 by RWL

[gcoover]

For cases, inside and out, I've used basic Elmer's Glue-All, rolled thin with a little 6" rubber print roller. For binding the leatherette bookbinding cloth to piranha pine and for binding the velvet to the cardboard inserts. Can't complain about a thing since they've taken a heckuva beating for many many years now - certainly not still brand new looking but nice and broken in!

 

Gary

[Jack Campin]

Elmer's Glue-All is PVA, isn't it? Looks like sperm and smells like vinegar? That's because it is vinegar. It can outgas acetic acid fumes unpredictably with changes in the weather, which will corrode steel.

[David S]

I have always used Copydex to fix instrument case linings as it doesn't soak through the material. Brush it gently and sparingly onto the fabric and onto the inside of the case, allow to dry and then bring the two together for a permanent fix.