Valve (And Pad) Sizes

[Paul_Hardy]

I've got a couple of concertinas that are in need of completely replacing the pads and valves. They are both 19th century treble English models - one Lachenal and one George Case.

I'm intending to order replacement pads and valves from Concertina Spares, but I don't know how many of each size of valves to order. They have: valves: 15mm, 19mm, 23mm, 25mm, 29mm, 35mm.

I suppose I could remove all the existing valves and carefully measure them, but I'd prefer to keep the concertinas operational until I am ready to start replacing. Is there a default set of valve sizes for a standard English treble - e.g. 10 of size x, 20 of size y, 12 of size z, etc? It doesn't have to be exact, as I have a few of each size in my spares kit at present.

Pads are less of a problem, as I can presumably measure a single pad and be fairly sure that the same size pad will do for all holes. Is that right?
CS has Pads: 12 mm, 14 mm, 16 mm, 18 mm, 20 mm, 22 mm, 25 mm. I think that 14mm looks right - is that fairly standard? Are the 16mm/18mm/20mm/25mm valves for baritones and bases?

[Greg Jowaisas]

Hi Paul,

One thing to consider is valve thickness. The original valving on brass reed instruments was usually with very thin valves to match pressure and response. Steel reed instruments generally had thicker valves. Anglos thicker still.

 

Might be worth your while to see if you can best match the valve thickness to your particular instrument. Wim Wakker at the Concertina Connection used to offer two general kinds of valves whose thicknesses may have varied. There may be some suppliers/repair people in the UK that offer this or more options.

 

When I restore or refurbish concertinas valve length, width, thickness, suppleness and density are all considerations that I feel affect reed response and sound to varying degrees. Being a full-time repairer justifies my having a variety of hair sheep skins on hand. I might use 3-5 different skins for punching out different lengths and thicknesses of valves.

 

This may seem like going to an extreme for the DIY person but I think it makes a noticeable difference. If you have an opportunity to acquire valves with different characteristics I think some thoughtful matching to reed size can optimize the sound and response of your instrument.

 

Greg

Edited October 28, 2015 by Greg Jowaisas

[d.elliott]

Hi Paul.

 

You've got my number dive me a bell and I will give you the low down

 

Dave

[Paul_Hardy]

Regarding valve thickness, I had noticed that the replacement valves I've got from two suppliers in past years are appreciably thicker (and wider for same length) than the valves on the George Case brass-reeded instrument. However, as an amateur tinker, I really only have access to these default thickness ones from Concertina-spares, or Wheatstone. Replacing the ancient stiff valves with new standard ones will be a reasonable step forward in playability, and if anyone in the future wants to tweak the instrument by fitting thinner ones, then they can do so.

 

Regarding the size distribution of valves, it seems from the lack of response in this thread, and in talking to Dave Elliot, that there is not a standard formula. Dave suggested using a small wooden stick (I used a toothpick) to measure the length of the existing reeds in situ, so I did this, and found for one side of one reedpan:

 

George Case treble: 6 of 15mm, 10 of 19mm, 8 of 23mm

Lachenal treble: 8 of 15mm, 4 of 19mm, 12 of 23mm

 

Clearly I'd need four times these quantities of valves to cover both reed directions and both ends.

 

For pads, then 14mm seem to be the appropriate size for both tinas.

 

Any comments welcomed!

[Don Taylor]

Wim Wakker (Concertina Connection in the US) has two thicknesses of valves listed on his web-site.

 

He says that the thinner (brown) valves allow for more harmonics:

 

http://www.concertinaconnection.com/valves.htm

 

Postage on a set of valves from the US would not be too expensive.