Accidental Layout On 30-Button Anglo...

[Roger Hare]

I have a 30-button Anglo (two actually), and I'm starting to get adventurous and actually

use the accidental row. Both my 30-button instruments are Lachenal layout.

 

Problem: My tutor (In-Between Anglo by Mick Bramich) shows that the right hand button 1

on the Accidental row for a C/G Lachenal layout is Eb on the push, and C# on the pull

(page 5).

 

I think that in fact it is C# on the push and Eb on the pull - ie: the notes are reversed. Is

this a 'typo'?

 

My ear is telling me that this is indeed the case. The other sources I have looked at (Australian

Bush Music Site, and Randy Merris's recently posted Salvation Army tutor) confirm this. However,

I'm still a little 'nervous' about the idea of 'correcting' things like this.

 

I'm aware that different instruments may have slightly different layouts, but is it likely that

concertinas exist with the notes on this R1 Accidental button reversed? I thought that the

differences in layouts usually occured at the ends of the rows, ie: on the 4/5 buttons on

either hand.

 

Sorry if this is a really dumb question...

 

Thanks.

 

Roger

Edited October 7, 2015 by lachenal74693

[Orm]

There're probably bigger experts coming, but these accidental notes layouts could be different. Two main systems I know are Jeffries and Wheatstone, there're also some small modifications. The Wheatstone/Lachenal system is more symmetric and logical, and I think Jeffries is favoured by irish players as more comfortable layout for irish music.

 

I've copied picture from buttonbox.com - http://www.buttonbox.com/morse-ceili.htmlto give you basic idea

Edited October 8, 2015 by Orm

[Bob Michel]

Standard Wheatstone/Lachenal layout for a 30-button has C# on the push, Eb on the pull. If Bramich shows a C# on the pull, either 1) he's referring to a Jeffries layout or 2) it's a typo.

 

Bob Michel

Near Philly

Edited October 7, 2015 by Bob Michel

[Dana Johnson]

Or his particular instrument has them swapped, possibly by someone who was used to the Jeffries layout which most of the time has the draw C# on the first button and the press on the second. This often happens with Jeffries where the "usual Eb/C#, C#/Eb ( first of each pair is press ) is reversed and whoever has that instrument thinks that is the usual way. I am inclined to guess both changes are done for people who got used to the other system first. Both types of instruments used the same size shoe for both notes, making the swap possible.

Dana

[Ken_Coles]

Yes, he printed the book that way (maybe that is his instrument, as Dana notes) without checking to see if other Lachenals were like his (most aren't). I noted this in my book review, posted back when we had static pages ("Learning" in this case) here on C.net.

 

Ken

[Roger Hare]

I found another source which confirms the C#/Eb layout, so your helpful replies serve

to re-inforce everything I have found.

 

Thank you.

 

I hadn't realised that Jeffries layout was Eb/C# on this button. Maybe I should think

about that before starting to look for a Jeffries...

 

Thanks again.

 

Roger

[StuartEstell]

Roger -- the more confident you get as a player, the less significant those layout variations will feel, and the quicker you'll adapt. A good Jeffries would certainly be worth the inconvenience of relearning some fingerings.

[Azalin]

Maybe it's just a matter of habit but I find this reverse C#/Eb on the RH accidentals' first and second buttons really, really useful... also allows for some triplets in both directions.

[Dana Johnson]

I Second Azalin's remark. I play the Jeffries type layout, but use the second button C# press as my default, which makes other first finger notes easier to use in combination with it. Important in the Key of D. I change the first button to C# in both directions which makes it easier for Wheatstone Lachinal folks. I do use the Eb, but don't feel I need two. There is only one at that pitch on the W/L layout.

Dana

[papawemba]

Hello, I wonder...in case of Jeffries layout, does it matter if the C# is push on the first or second accidental ? I prefer C# push on the first accidental because it is the same on Wheastone...so less lost if going from one to the other. Would it be a bad choice ? Thank you

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

One way to find out which note it is could be simply try the assumed C# octave below and see if they sound together nicely without clashing..  then you will know if it  is C or not . ( I hope you know what I mean in meantime!)😚

Edited January 7, 2023 by SIMON GABRIELOW
Edited sentence

[papawemba]

Answering my own question: The Jeffries layout in Bramich book is with a C# on push on first button. So both are good and I favor a push on first and pull on second.

 

Nicolas