Roger Hare Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 (edited) I have a 30-button Anglo (two actually), and I'm starting to get adventurous and actually use the accidental row. Both my 30-button instruments are Lachenal layout. Problem: My tutor (In-Between Anglo by Mick Bramich) shows that the right hand button 1 on the Accidental row for a C/G Lachenal layout is Eb on the push, and C# on the pull (page 5). I think that in fact it is C# on the push and Eb on the pull - ie: the notes are reversed. Is this a 'typo'? My ear is telling me that this is indeed the case. The other sources I have looked at (Australian Bush Music Site, and Randy Merris's recently posted Salvation Army tutor) confirm this. However, I'm still a little 'nervous' about the idea of 'correcting' things like this. I'm aware that different instruments may have slightly different layouts, but is it likely that concertinas exist with the notes on this R1 Accidental button reversed? I thought that the differences in layouts usually occured at the ends of the rows, ie: on the 4/5 buttons on either hand. Sorry if this is a really dumb question... Thanks. Roger Edited October 7, 2015 by lachenal74693 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orm Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 (edited) There're probably bigger experts coming, but these accidental notes layouts could be different. Two main systems I know are Jeffries and Wheatstone, there're also some small modifications. The Wheatstone/Lachenal system is more symmetric and logical, and I think Jeffries is favoured by irish players as more comfortable layout for irish music. I've copied picture from buttonbox.com - http://www.buttonbox.com/morse-ceili.htmlto give you basic idea Edited October 8, 2015 by Orm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Michel Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 (edited) Standard Wheatstone/Lachenal layout for a 30-button has C# on the push, Eb on the pull. If Bramich shows a C# on the pull, either 1) he's referring to a Jeffries layout or 2) it's a typo. Bob Michel Near Philly Edited October 7, 2015 by Bob Michel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Johnson Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Or his particular instrument has them swapped, possibly by someone who was used to the Jeffries layout which most of the time has the draw C# on the first button and the press on the second. This often happens with Jeffries where the "usual Eb/C#, C#/Eb ( first of each pair is press ) is reversed and whoever has that instrument thinks that is the usual way. I am inclined to guess both changes are done for people who got used to the other system first. Both types of instruments used the same size shoe for both notes, making the swap possible. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken_Coles Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Yes, he printed the book that way (maybe that is his instrument, as Dana notes) without checking to see if other Lachenals were like his (most aren't). I noted this in my book review, posted back when we had static pages ("Learning" in this case) here on C.net. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Hare Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 I found another source which confirms the C#/Eb layout, so your helpful replies serve to re-inforce everything I have found. Thank you. I hadn't realised that Jeffries layout was Eb/C# on this button. Maybe I should think about that before starting to look for a Jeffries... Thanks again. Roger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartEstell Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Roger -- the more confident you get as a player, the less significant those layout variations will feel, and the quicker you'll adapt. A good Jeffries would certainly be worth the inconvenience of relearning some fingerings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azalin Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Maybe it's just a matter of habit but I find this reverse C#/Eb on the RH accidentals' first and second buttons really, really useful... also allows for some triplets in both directions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Johnson Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I Second Azalin's remark. I play the Jeffries type layout, but use the second button C# press as my default, which makes other first finger notes easier to use in combination with it. Important in the Key of D. I change the first button to C# in both directions which makes it easier for Wheatstone Lachinal folks. I do use the Eb, but don't feel I need two. There is only one at that pitch on the W/L layout. Dana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papawemba Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Hello, I wonder...in case of Jeffries layout, does it matter if the C# is push on the first or second accidental ? I prefer C# push on the first accidental because it is the same on Wheastone...so less lost if going from one to the other. Would it be a bad choice ? Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIMON GABRIELOW Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) One way to find out which note it is could be simply try the assumed C# octave below and see if they sound together nicely without clashing.. then you will know if it is C or not . ( I hope you know what I mean in meantime!)😚 Edited January 7 by SIMON GABRIELOW Edited sentence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papawemba Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 Answering my own question: The Jeffries layout in Bramich book is with a C# on push on first button. So both are good and I favor a push on first and pull on second. Nicolas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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