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New Reeds Or Retune


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I don't know the tolerances of reeds and what they would take to retune. But is it possible to re tune from Bb/f to G/d. At the moment it registers B/f# which I take as being in old pitch, just a query really as it will have to come up to concert pitch at X amount of pounds per reed, so I'm just wondering it it worth it for a keys I would not use normally.

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it might actually BF#. They do exist in that pitch though it is unusual and some people do play in that pitch. I'm just in the process of finishing off a rebuild of Jeffries in BF# and I have a willing buyer who wants that pitch. If you're is a good quality instrument I would recommend not attempting to have it re-pitched. Too many old instruments have been altered in this way and it is an unfortunate reduction in diversity, and the results can be disappointing.

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Thanks for the reply, It does have a lovely sound, 38 button Jones , just a small tweek needed to get it completely airtight, but it plays well and it also looks as if it has had a bit of work done on it in the last few years. Starting a new group soon so I will have to get the singers to start practicing in Bf# until I find my way around it to play in other keys.

Edited by rob carr
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Reeds have length / pitch limitations. Yes you can make a 3/4 inch long Low G, but you won't get it to "play" in a concertina. The extra weighting required to drop the pitch that much will produce a very unsatisfactory instrument. As reeds get lower in pitch, they get longer fast without weighting. Weighting done well will still produce decent reeds, but they will not compare to well made unweighted reeds of the proper length. If I need to drop the pitch of a reed, I much prefer to add weight at the tip than to reduce the thickness near the root. Even though the reed aerodynamics are not ideal, the reed is still full strength and will not have as much a tendency to be pulled flat under pressure like a weak reed will. Regardless, changing the pitch of a good concertina other than to bring it to modern pitch is to create a poorer instrument than you started with. It ain't the way to go.

Dana

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  • 2 months later...

Dear Dana

 

Just been reading your post here above and wondered if you had any advice re my tuning dilemma:

 

I have an Lachenal English Concertina in the old philharmonic pitch standard (A = 452 Hz, as against modern concert pitch of A=440Hz), I pressume the instrument dates to pre 1896... I have been toying with idea of retuning it down to modern concert, but so far have never got around to starting. Mainly because I feel daunted by the prospect of retuning 96 reeds! I have only recently got into doing my own maintenance and repairs and don't have a lot of spare time. I do have another Lachenal which is in concert pitch, so really the only reasons for re tuning this one would be to (possibly) increase the sale value? I bought this one on Ebay from a seller who obviously knew nothing about concertinas and I also had no idea at that time that old instruments were tuned to different pitch standards... I probably would not have bought it if I had known that I could not use it in pub sessions played at concert pitch. However, as I only paid £350 for it I do not really feel ripped off!

 

The question is should I retune or not???

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I think that, as long as you have an A440 instrument, it could be nice to also have an old pitch one. I don't know how different the sound actually is, but I think it would be nice to have that variety. It would also be interesting to hear some of the old tunes as they were once played and heard.

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The question is should I retune or not???

 

If, as you say, you're planning to sell, I advise against retuning, for a few reasons:

  • You should leave it up to the buyer whether to retune or not, since there are individuals who would be happy to have a concertina in old pitch, and each year (because of people who do retune such instruments) there are fewer and fewer available.
  • You might get more for a concertina in A440, but as you've described your skill level, there's no way you would be reasonably compensated for the time you put in doing a wholesale retuning.
  • And if the buyer does decide to have the instrument retuned, they would likely want to have it done by an experienced professional. Retuning is more subtle and complex than just changing the pitch. Among other details, appropriate profiles -- both thickness and "bend" along the length -- are needed to provide both response and tone quality that are good and uniform across the range. If you're very careful (once again, time is a significant factor), you might be able to do a decent job the first time, but there's no guarantee. I have myself occasionally retuned individual reeds and even made a couple from scratch, but for anything significant I always have it done by someone I can trust to do a better -- and quicker -- job than I could.
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I'd second Jim's remarks. 96 reeds just takes longer, but one step after the other and you are done. It would be a job to send out though. Rather than a learning proposition. I talked a particularly handy lady through the process once and she ended up doing a very good job, first on a less expensive instrument, then after gaining experience, on her good Wheatstone. I wouldn't recommend it to everybody, but there was something about this woman that gave me confidence she could do it and do it well. 452 down to 440 is not a great distance, and if done properly is well within the range of the reeds in question. For the lower reeds, I'd probably add a thin film of lead free solder ( put a small bit on then file nearly all of it away) to drop the pitch rather than mess with the profiles, which are often rather weak anyway. If they are already weighted, you probably would need to re do them, rather than trying to add more of what could be a different melting point alloy these days. Rosin core 60/40 electrical solder might work though if it is still available since it is a tin/ lead alloy.

Dana

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