Jump to content

Its There A Difference?


Recommended Posts

Hi, im new into this of the concertina, i just buy a Anglo of 20 keys (is the only type i found, and i cant expend, on e-bay, i dont found in my country) but i see the 30 keys its most commun.

how many differences are into this two?

thanks and sorry for my english!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 20 button Anglo usually has the outer row of notes that play the notes of one musical scale, (most commonly "C"), and the other inner row plays notes of another musical scale a fifth higher. (most commonly "g") Combining these two rows gives a great deal of flexibility, but it does not include some notes used in other scales.

 

The 30 button Anglo incudes two rows that are identical to the rows on the 20 button, and then a further outer row which provides the "missing" notes, and options to play some other notes on the opposite direction.

 

Because of the "missing" notes, there will be some tunes you can't play on a 20 button instrument, and most tunes can only be played in one or two keys. But don't worry, you can do quite a bit with a good 20 button Anglo, particularly if you want to play folk music. I have one and I love to play it. I consider this my main instrument.

 

You may eventually want a 30 button instrument, but don't feel you need to rush or worry about that now. Everything you learn on the 20 button will still work on a 30 button instrument later on, so take your time and enjoy!

 

Edit: there are sometimes variations on the notes for the lowest button on the inner row of a 20 button, but the rest are pretty standard.

Also the are a couple different common arrangements for the notes on the additional row of a 30 button, but you don't need to worry about that now. If you ever do decide to get a 30 button, then you'll want to decide which arrangement you want to have, but the two main rows will still be the same as 20 button either way.

Edited by Tradewinds Ted
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 20 button Anglo usually has the outer row of notes that play the notes of one musical scale, (most commonly "C"), and the other inner row plays notes of another musical scale a fifth higher. (most commonly "g") Combining these two rows gives a great deal of flexibility, but it does not include some notes used in other scales.

 

The 30 button Anglo incudes two rows that are identical to the rows on the 20 button, and then a further outer row which provides the "missing" notes, and options to play some other notes on the opposite direction.

 

Because of the "missing" notes, there will be some tunes you can't play on a 20 button instrument, and most tunes can only be played in one or two keys. But don't worry, you can do quite a bit with a good 20 button Anglo, particularly if you want to play folk music. I have one and I love to play it. I consider this my main instrument.

 

You may eventually want a 30 button instrument, but don't feel you need to rush or worry about that now. Everything you learn on the 20 button will still work on a 30 button instrument later on, so take your time and enjoy!

 

Edit: there are sometimes variations on the notes for the lowest button on the inner row of a 20 button, but the rest are pretty standard.

Also the are a couple different common arrangements for the notes on the additional row of a 30 button, but you don't need to worry about that now. If you ever do decide to get a 30 button, then you'll want to decide which arrangement you want to have, but the two main rows will still be the same as 20 button either way.

 

Thank you very much! i see, then im gonna do my best for now whit the 20 keys.

its there a good piece to start to practice?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sir Locust,

It depends on the type of music you want to play, but I've posted a few free samples from "Civil War Concertina" elsewhere here on cnet, and a few more might be on Amazon.com's "Look Inside" feature - all for 20-button instruments. Same for "Easy Anglo 1-2-3", since it teaches 1-row, 2-row and 3-row playing. Hope this helps you get started! Also, just pick it up every day and get familiar with what sound is where, it's also good for playing by ear.

 

Welcome to cnet!

 

Gary

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The 30 is more versatile, and a 37 is even more so, but a 20 has a special charm of its own. In English folk music, the great William Kimber learned on a 20 button and when he was later given a 30, he declined to use the extra buttons when playing his Morris repertoire - although he did use them when playing other styles.

 

I start almost every practice by running through some familiar tunes on the 20 as a warm up. Working within the constraints of 20 buttons has made me a more thoughtful payer. I play harmonic style.

 

Sooner or later you will want a 30, but you can do a lot more than you think on a 20. The 30 will give you more harmonies and some faster fingering options as well as allowing you to explore more keys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sir Locust,

I forgot to mention that all the "Civil War Concertina" tunes (and some of the "Easy Anglo 1-2-3" tunes) are on YouTube (angloconc), so you can hear a fairly wide variety of tunes that are playable on a 20-button Anglo.

 

And I can totally agree with Rod since I felt the same way for many years. But I found it a great challenge to see just how much sound could be coaxed out of only two rows, and was quite surprised at the results. If I'd realized that years ago, maybe I wouldn't have switched to EC quite so readily!

 

Gary

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would urge you to think very carefully about your purchase. There are a lot of 20 button instruments which are not made to very high standards. This can be a very frustrating thing if your instrument spends as much (or more) time being repaired as played. Make sure you get recommendations before you buy. If price is a consideration, you can get a Rochelle with 30 buttons for a reasonable price. They are not one of the a top-of-the-line instruments, but they are very reliable, and do have 30 buttons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the important thing is the quality of the instrument rather than the number of buttons.

 

We live in a "more is always better" society, but I can tell you that my 130 mph motorbike only did 30 mph in heavy traffic, I used my 3 hp outboard a lot more than the 15 when I owned both sizes, and riding a unicycle down a muddy farm track is more fun than riding a 21 speed bicycle down the same track.

 

In the same way, a box with more buttons than you need is just extra weight, clutter and expense, and there is a joy to getting good music from a simple instrument.

 

For all round playing, 30 buttons is a good compromise, but if I could only have one instrument, I'd rather have a Dipper 20 (if such a thing exists) than a Rochelle 30, because music for me is about the experience of making nice sounds with an instrument that is enjoyable to pick up and play.

 

And a point on versatility - listen to what someone like Brendan Power can achieve on a diatonic harmonica - basically, a single row Anglo layout. Yes, he also plays chromatic, and experiments with different tunings, but he can play more music on one row of 10 reeds than I will ever play on an Anglo of any size.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

. . . the experience of making nice sounds with an instrument that is enjoyable to pick up and play.

I think that statement gets to the essence of what we all want. It could be a banner on the opening page of our discussions.

 

We all have our preferences about what instrument to pick up, and what is enjoyable to play, but the sounds and the enjoyment are what it's all about.

Edited by Mike Franch
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

. . . the experience of making nice sounds with an instrument that is enjoyable to pick up and play.

I think that statement gets to the essence of what we all want. It could be a banner on the opening page of our discussions.

 

We all have our preferences about what instrument to pick up, and what is enjoyable to play, but the sounds and the enjoyment are what it's all about.

 

Yes - very true indeed! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We all have our preferences about what instrument to pick up, and what is enjoyable to play, but the sounds and the enjoyment are what it's all about.

 

Aye, but we don't all have the same desires or standards for what we want to play... or for what particular accomplishments will please or satisfy us. That's why it's best to be both specific and broad in describing how things have and haven't satisfied ourselves, so the reader has the best chance of deciding to what extent that matches or departs from his/her own wishes and requirements.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reading back over this thread, unless I'm being gormless I don't think we've established what kind of music Sir Locust thinks he would like to play on concertina - if you can give us any details that might help us to advise.

 

As I said on another thread, I think if I were starting now on a low-ish budget I would buy as good a 20-button vintage instrument (i.e. a rosewood-ended Lachenal) as I could afford with the expectation that it would keep its value enabling me to trade up when necessary without losing much - or potentially any - money. I'd expect to outgrow it quickly, but to have much more enjoyment from a good vintage 20-key - as Mike also suggests - than from a modern, more plasticky budget 30-key (which still aren't cheap).

 

But my needs may be very different from yours, Sir Locust.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the important thing is the quality of the instrument rather than the number of buttons.

i only have to say that is a Bonetti, again, there was not much to chose from, but i recived it yesterday, and work well

 

 

Reading back over this thread, unless I'm being gormless I don't think we've established what kind of music Sir Locust thinks he would like to play on concertina - if you can give us any details that might help us to advise.

it maybe sounds kinda stupid or "newbie" but i mained to want do some covers or simples melodies of games or series, but also im interested in folk, for example, one of the tunes i want to play it is "Gymnopédie no.1"

But still, I am open to learn what it can be possible, i mean, i already have it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Any Anglo will allow you to play simple tunes in major keys. Because you have two keys, a 5th apart, the two most common changes of key, mid tune (modulations) are readily available. You can also do the "three chord trick" in either of those two keys.

 

If you have a 30 button, it will open up a wider range of tunes because you have some of the "black notes" ("black notes" as they would appear on a piano) and you also have a wider range of chords in the two home keys.

 

You should therefore be able to pick out melodies from many pop songs, TV theme tunes, hymns and carols, and the well known bits of classical/orchestral music. It's a versatile instrument if only you take the time to work at it.

 

The more you learn about basic musical theory, the easier it will be for you to work out where to start on the keyboard for each tune.

 

The only difficulty is that the Anglo is heavily biased towards the two home keys (C/G or G/D, or whatever) and the tune you are copying may be written in a different key. This means that you will not always be able to play along with the original recording. You will be playing the same tune, but in a different key.

 

Have fun - that's what it's all about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only difficulty is that the Anglo is heavily biased towards the two home keys (C/G or G/D, or whatever) and the tune you are copying may be written in a different key. This means that you will not always be able to play along with the original recording. You will be playing the same tune, but in a different key.

Not a big problem, if you have a computer.

If you work with written music -- whether staff notation or ABC, -- there are plenty of computer-based tools these days for transposing it into more "comfortable" keys. There are also several which can independently vary both the pitch and speed to make it possible to play along with an audio file (which you can have recorded from a CD, among other possibilities) even if the original key isn't compatible with your instrument or the original speed isn't compatible with your skill level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...