Geoff Wooff Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Meanwhile, fitting the topic title, though not the question in the text, might we wonder about a record low price? I know folks who have received instruments for free, but do you know of anyone who was paid to take a concertina? In 1975 I bought a "dot and Comma" (Pin Hole) Aeola for £8 whilst out for a walk one saturday morning in South East london. Edited June 17, 2015 by Geoff Wooff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemonster Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) I think sales of 30b Jeffries in the $9k to $12K range were not uncommon during the bubble years. I had not heard the $20k rumor, but have heard rumors of $14K-$16K transactions, guessing those were in Euro or UK sterling, so the US $ exchange rate should probly be a factor in one's perspective on those figures. The most expensive Jeffries I have played has been a 30b discussed in this thread, sold at the height of the high market---it had a brand-new Dipper bellows, had been completely overhauled by Dipper, and had reeds with huge, rich lung power. Question RE the comment about "4-row Anglos" being less desirable at present. By "4-row Anglo," what does that mean? A 45k? A 38-40k? I'm not asking about converted duets, just curious about "4-row Anglos" and why this is purportedly not of interest just now? Edited June 18, 2015 by ceemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I'll happily sell a Jeffries for a record price, any offers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Thompson Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'll happily sell a Jeffries for a record price, any offers? Yes - I'll be in that - I am willing to beat Geoff's record at £7.50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I'll happily sell a Jeffries for a record price, any offers?Yes - I'll be in that - I am willing to beat Geoff's record at £7.50. You're suggesting an all-pay auction, don't you? Already transferred your £7.50? £8.00 from my side then! Hopefully it's a Duet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I think sales of 30b Jeffries in the $9k to $12K range were not uncommon during the bubble years. I had not heard the $20k rumor, but have heard rumors of $14K-$16K transactions, guessing those were in Euro or UK sterling, so the US $ exchange rate should probly be a factor in one's perspective on those figures. The most expensive Jeffries I have played has been a 30b discussed in this thread, sold at the height of the high market---it had a brand-new Dipper bellows, had been completely overhauled by Dipper, and had reeds with huge, rich lung power. Those prices sound outrageous to me, and I've been in the business of restoring and selling such instruments for many years... Question RE the comment about "4-row Anglos" being less desirable at present. By "4-row Anglo," what does that mean? A 45k? A 38-40k? I'm not asking about converted duets, just curious about "4-row Anglos" and why this is purportedly not of interest just now? I made that comment in the context of converting Jeffries duets into Anglos (or vice versa) and only the 44/45-key Jeffries/Crabb models have four rows of buttons or are suitable for either configuration - in fact C. Jeffries is supposed to have made his first duet by putting different reeds into one of his 4-row Anglos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Hare Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 (edited) Thank you for those replies. Interesting - I had guessed that the top prices would be in the region of £20k-£25k. The fact that they are closer to £6k-£7k gives me hope that one day I will be able to own a top of the range instrument. The top prices for early models when new were interesting in their own right. Thank you. I had taken my C/G Lachenal on its first sailing holiday, and I posed the question exactly as asked by a non-player, and did not deconstruct it. OT, but the remarks about 2nd-hand book prices are interesting. The economic models operating here are probably different (?), but it is instructive perhaps to note that I have seen relatively new sailing books commanding prices 6 times the original cover price, when they are only 10 years old. I have also seen a 'classic' sailing book with 2nd-hand prices ranging from £120 to $2000! I paid about £65 for my copy. I have also seen a truly execrable 32 page book on Shogi (Japanese Chess) going for the ridiculous price of £170. This sometimes works both ways - I have picked up a scarce English language Shogi book for E1.00 when I would have expected to pay £25-£30. Roger Edited June 20, 2015 by lachenal74693 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malcolm clapp Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 ...and only the 44/45-key Jeffries/Crabb models have four rows of buttons .... A friend in Oz owns a 45 key Lachenal in 4 rows, the only one I've ever seen. Unfortunately, I don't know the original tuning as he had it converted to A/D/G/C (though not in the standard octaves nor the full range). I have seen one Jeffries duet system (4 rows) made by Wheatstone, offered to my (then) wife by Neville Crabb in the early 1980s. I believe it had belonged to a long-standing ICA stalwart who had recently passed away, though I can't recall his name. Hope it hasn't become an anglo.... (Off topic, but perhaps of interest....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemonster Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 20K to 25K UK Sterling?????!!!??? Sheesh. These instruments have their charm. But they won't play with facility in all keys, do not have all the notes twice (in each direction), and do not even have all the notes, period. And they're verrrrry easily drowned out by other instruments. I mean, there was a bubble, but . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Hare Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 20K to 25K UK Sterling?????!!!??? Sheesh.... I mean, there was a bubble, but . . . A guesstimate based on my newcomers ignorance of the market - I've been playing less than a year, and am still feeling my way around in Concertinaworld. As I said, it's encouraging (for me) that top prices are (relatively) so low... Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) 20K to 25K UK Sterling?????!!!??? Sheesh. These instruments have their charm. But they won't play with facility in all keys, do not have all the notes twice (in each direction), and do not even have all the notes, period. And they're verrrrry easily drowned out by other instruments. I mean, there was a bubble, but . . . Well, those very finest models never make that sort of money Ceemonster and anyway what on earth does the fact that any musical instrument can be "verrrry easily drowned out by other instrumenst" have to do with prices ? Quality of sound and playability, rarity and other factors are of far more import to the market value of an instrument. If all we considered was how loud an instrument is we could all take Fairground Organs to the session. Instruments are like musicians; no matter how good a person thinks they are there will always be a better player around the next corner. Today is " Fête de la musique" in France and we will shortly be heading out to an accoustic musical pique-nique in a local park. Yes, we will take the loud instruments but there is bound to be someone louder. Geoff. Edited June 21, 2015 by Geoff Wooff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian brown Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 20K to 25K UK Sterling?????!!!??? Sheesh. These instruments have their charm. But they won't play with facility in all keys, do not have all the notes twice (in each direction), and do not even have all the notes, period. And they're verrrrry easily drowned out by other instruments. I mean, there was a bubble, but . . . Well, those very finest models never make that sort of money Ceemonster and anyway what on earth does the fact that any musical instrument can be "verrrry easily drowned out by other instrumenst" have to do with prices ? Quality of sound and playability, rarity and other factors are of far more import to the market value of an instrument. If all we considered was how loud an instrument is we could all take Fairground Organs to the session. Instruments are like musicians; no matter how good a person thinks they are there will always be a better player around the next corner. Today is " Fête de la musique" in France and we will shortly be heading out to an accoustic musical pique-nique in a local park. Yes, we will take the loud instruments but there is bound to be someone louder. Geoff. I couldn't agree more Geoff! And I don't quite follow the logic this thread has taken - under the system most of us live under, price depends solely on the availability of instruments and the demand for them. If you bought an instrument you fell in love with, what does it matter if one of these factors changes and you find you paid more than the current price? If on the other hand, somebody has bought an instrument as an investment, then they surely understand the risks of speculating in commodities? At the very least they could subsequently lean to play and get some enjoyment from it… (In that sense, wine is a similarly attractive investment ) Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikefule Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 The original question is rather strange and a little sad. I gather it was originally asked asked by a non concertinist who was speaking to the original poster? It reminds me of an event many years ago. My then wife and I rode on our tandem to a friend's house and it was the first time we were socialising with his new partner other than in a large group of friends. She worked in sales, and little brash - flash car, sharp suit, listened to motivational tapes for fun etc. We turned up on the tandem and the friend looked at it, prodded the gears, commented on the frame, asked what it was like to ride, etc. then his new partner asked bluntly, "How much are these?" heard the answer, nodded approvingly (it was expensive) and never mentioned it again. The point being that the sole measure of worth or status to her was the price of the item rather than what it could do or what it was like to use. The concertina is an unusual, quirky and historically interesting device. Vintage instruments are often beautiful pieces of craftsmanship. The fact that something is over a hundred years old and still in use is pretty special. "What's the most anyone has ever paid for one?" sounds like a Top Trumps (card game) question. I wish concertinas were cheaper, but I have paid what I needed to to get the ones I really wanted. The most expensive was roughly 2-3 months gross (pre-tax) wages. It was worth every penny, but I would rather have paid two weeks' wages! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danersen Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) ...and only the 44/45-key Jeffries/Crabb models have four rows of buttons .... A friend in Oz owns a 45 key Lachenal in 4 rows, the only one I've ever seen. Unfortunately, I don't know the original tuning as he had it converted to A/D/G/C (though not in the standard octaves nor the full range). I have seen one Jeffries duet system (4 rows) made by Wheatstone, offered to my (then) wife by Neville Crabb in the early 1980s. I believe it had belonged to a long-standing ICA stalwart who had recently passed away, though I can't recall his name. Hope it hasn't become an anglo.... (Off topic, but perhaps of interest....) Nor I, Malcolm. If you or anyone else has any information or indication about the whereabouts or availability of the Wheatstone duet to which you refer, I will appreciate receiving that information. This would be a grand addition to my family of remarkable duets. Be Well, Dan PS: Still seeking these: 55+ buttons each - Crane Wheatstone Aeola and Crane Lachenal Edeophone! Edited June 21, 2015 by danersen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Hare Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) The original question is rather strange and a little sad. I gather it was originally asked asked by a non concertinist who was speaking to the original poster? Eh? I don't think it's partcularly strange or sad. I was asked a question (one of several relating to the 'infernal machine'). I didn't know the answer - had a wild (and wildly inaccurate!) guess, but covered my a**e by asking the question here. As I think I already said, it's a great relief to me that top-whack prices are low enough for me to be able to aspire to owning a top-of-range instrument 'real soon now'. FWIW, I don't think the questioner could be less like the individual described in the post quoted above. I've rarely met a 'nicer' person - he was just curious, and fascinated by the fact that the rather nice antique 20-button Lachenal I had with me was so (relatively) cheap. I wonder if the next time he turns up on the boat, he will have a concertina with him. I hope so... The discussion is also interesting because it seems to indicate that concertina players are basically (financially) sane - unlike those who dabble in (say) the world of fine arts and paintings where outrageously high prices seem to be the norm. Oddly, the rather nice Castagnari and Hohner melodeons being toted around by other members of 'Team Pilgrim' provoked no questions at all... Roger Edited June 21, 2015 by lachenal74693 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 The discussion is ... interesting because it seems to indicate that concertina players are basically (financially) sane - unlike those who dabble in (say) the world of fine arts and paintings where outrageously high prices seem to be the norm. Or the players in a bluegrass band? Have you seen the prices of pre-war Gibson Lloyd Loar-signed Gibson F-5 mandolins, "Mastertone" 5-string banjos or Martin "Herringbone" D-28 guitars??? Or an original Selmer Maccaferri guitar for gypsy jazz music? Top-of-the-range concertina prices are ridiculously low in comparison... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Kruskal Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Or an original Selmer Maccaferri guitar for gypsy jazz music? Only $38,000 http://www.djangobooks.com/Item/selmer-transitional-model?gclid=CjwKEAjw5J6sBRDp3ty_17KZyWsSJABgp-Oa_XRIvltPKXPJKV8sPWkwclrg1yth3awFx_vaEjdJnRoCAb3w_wcB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemonster Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) well, Geoff, I DID cite numerous variables in expressing shock at the idea of 20K to 25K UK sterling for a concertina. There was a passel of 'em, with drown-out-ability coming up the rear. On the other hand, I must say that having a provocative effect has never come with so little effort. I'll try to lob another bomb in the next thread, but not sure I can match those results . . . . . . I am a US $ consumer. and 20K to 25K UK Sterling equals lots, and lots, and lots, of US $$$$s. Lot$. Roger, yes, there is hope for you. One day you will have a wonderful concertina for much less than 20K to 25K UK Sterling! I don't find the original ??? strange or sad. Concertinas are highly expensive instruments, many of the desirable ones are vintage items whose prices are a product of a "market," and the market and prices are points of fascination to lots of concertina geeks for reasons both idle and practical, such as the poster who wanted an idea because they were hoping to own a nice one some day. some of the violin crowd loves to eyeball/gossip about vintage prices, banjo geeks greatly enjoy this sport, and guitar geeks love to discuss the prices of vintage guitars---there is actually an entire monthly magazine devoted to vintage guitars, and prices are a big part of the fun of thumbing through it . . . The vintage guitar market took a big hit during the crash. But there are electric guitars---electric, not acoustic instruments hand-carved out of fine tonewoods---that go for hundreds of thousands of dollars, make of that what you will. There are also vintage acoustic guitars that sell in the hundred Ks, make of that what you will. Edited June 23, 2015 by ceemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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