Ebay Two Row Jeffries/crabb

[David Hornett]

Hi all,

 

I was the winning bidder on the Jeffries/Crabb two row you may have seen on ebay a few weeks back. The reeds are in unfiled excellent condition, no rust, still in old pitch, all working untouched, in fact the instruments is very clean inside (The inside is so unmarked and clean, it looks like it has gone through a washing machine). But, as could be seen on the ebay images, the bellows are totally disintegrated, and the fretted ends will need recutting, but otherwise everything is there to make job fairly straight forward.

 

But can anyone help me? I have two Jeffries with metal ends stamped Jeffries Maker and Jeffries Bros. Did the wooden ones have this stamp too? The one I purchased, although in Jeffries livery, and fretted end design, does not. I ask because the reeds and shoes are exactly the same, in measurement as the 1880/90's Jeffries and the 1920's Jeffries I have. The reeds are immediately recognizeable as they tend to be slightly slimmer with thicker shoes than the Lachenal, in fact a Lachenal I did up a few years ago had a lone slim C4 reed packed in with sheets of folded brown paper, a little longer in slot than a Lachenal, and I would swear it was a Jeffries. The bellows cards are of the same dimensions as the bellows cards of the early jeffries I did up, and the reed plate is the same thickness, much thicker than a Lachenal. The valves are parallel, not saddle punch shape, as on Jeffries, and the pivot pins are the same as Jeffries. So I wonder, were non-stamped Jeffries always Mr Crabs efforts, or were they simply unstamped Jeffries, OR will one never know? (There is no number inside the instrument)

 

Any advice?

 

(Anyway, when I am finished it will be a beautiful two row, to all intents and purposes a Jeffries, but without the mark, just the way it was sold. A very happy purchase for me.)

 

Best regards to all,

 

David Hornett

[Stephen Chambers]

But can anyone help me? I have two Jeffries with metal ends stamped Jeffries Maker and Jeffries Bros. Did the wooden ones have this stamp too? The one I purchased, although in Jeffries livery, and fretted end design, does not. I ask because the reeds and shoes are exactly the same, in measurement as the 1880/90's Jeffries and the 1920's Jeffries I have.... So I

wonder, were non-stamped Jeffries always Mr Crabs efforts, or were they simply unstamped Jeffries, OR will one never know? (There is no number inside the instrument)

I guess I could have made it clearer in my answer to the previous thread, but it would appear that ALL of these were probably made by John Crabb, though some are stamped on top with C. JEFFRIES, MAKER - so they're only "Jeffries" if they're stamped, and I'd call 'em "John Crabb" if they aren't...

 

Jeffries' seem not to have built their own concertinas until after their move to 23, Praed Street.

 

 

[RP3]

Stephen, as you have pointed out above, the early Jeffries concertinas appear to have been made by John Crabb. But my question to you is this: did Crabb also make the metal ends and reeds for these or just the casing and bellows? The reason I ask is that I have several early Jeffries (both 28 and 30 button models) and I find the fretwork much finer than on any early Crabbs I've seen and I detect a difference also in the sound -- especially in the lower ranges.

 

I don't think there has been any general consensus on these points and I'd like to hear your views.

 

Ross Schlabach

 

PS: Sorry if I've appeared to hijack the thread. Didn't mean to.

Edited June 3, 2015 by RP3

[David Hornett]

Were all Crabbs numbered? The two Crabbs that I have repaired were both numbered. The two Jeffries I have and the instrument I am now wondering about is not. Is it possible to determine their genisis in this manner do you think? Does anyone know?(I suspect I can guess at the answer and possibly will have to leave it with Stephen's: so they're only "Jeffries" if they're stamped, and I'd call 'em "John Crabb" if they aren't...)

 

 

David

[Dan Worrall]

Well, dang! I have a wooden two row "Jeffries" Bb/F, sold to me as a Jeffries and I have no reason to doubt the seller's assessment...but it has no exterior stamp, so I guess it is a Crabb (or to be charitable, a Jeffries/Crabb). No matter. It was beautifully restored and plays just great. It is a favorite of mine, clacky buttons and all.

[mike byrne]

If it's a Jeffries it will be stamped on one of the rosewood sides.

 

 

[Chris Timson]

As I've written elsewhere, Dan, I'm a great fan of these Crabbfries 26 button jobbies. A lovely sweet sound but with some power behind it, very different from what you usually expect from Jeffries. I got John Connor to bush mine while he was putting new bellows and it stopped the buttons clacking beautifully - a worthwhile thing to have done, I'd say.

 

Chris

[Alex West]

I have a 26 button wooden ended Jeffries - stamped Jeffries as per Mike Byrne's post - and an unmarked wooden 26 key which has been attributed to crabb. They do look a little different in the fretwork and they sound a little differnt but the reed shoes don't measure significantly differently. Someone who's seen more of these than I have dates them later than you might suppose, so maybe they are from the period when Jeffries made their own concertinas. The stamp is identical to the stamp on my 45 button which I think is clearly later than the J Crabb era.

 

I know Dan's instrument, and the sound is as nice as the "Jeffries" 26 key I have. As far as I was aware, the previous owner and the restorer (who has also seen more instruments than me) both attributed it to Jeffries rather than Crabb.

 

I agree with Chris, the sound of the 26 key is very full and doesn't have the harshness that some Jeffires C/Gs can have - it's close to being my favourite.

 

Congratulations David - if my server hadn't crashed at the last minute, it might have been me starting this thread!

 

Alex West

[David Hornett]

Thank you Alex,

 

No stamp, either side or front, so it seems as though you did not miss out on a Jeffries. I have put a few of the reeds over the bench and compared them with some spare Jeffries reeds I have in the same pitch: absolutely no difference, so, seems it's all in the name./ If you wondered what my top bid was going to be rather than what it was, 500 pounds ($1000 Aussie dollars) came in at half that. Keep me busy for a week or two making bellows and cutting frets. (Maybe I should make a Jeffries stamp, if that is really all the great man did himself, sort of keep up the tradition one would think???)

 

Thank you again everyone.

 

David Hornett

[Stephen Chambers]

Stephen, as you have pointed out above, the early Jeffries concertinas appear to have been made by John Crabb. But my question to you is this: did Crabb also make the metal ends and reeds for these or just the casing and bellows? The reason I ask is that I have several early Jeffries (both 28 and 30 button models) and I find the fretwork much finer than on any early Crabbs I've seen and I detect a difference also in the sound -- especially in the lower ranges.

 

Firstly, apart from on stylistic grounds, we know for a fact that John Crabb made concertinas for Charles Jeffries senior because some are recorded in the surviving records of the Crabb firm, but in Victorian times a lot of the work was normally done as "outwork" by specialists (as was the case with many other similar trades) - so that the same (small) maker's instruments might have reeds, fretwork, woodwork or bellows made by more than one supplier and be of varying design and/or quality.

 

It's a topic that George Jones' memoir, Recollections of the English Concertina, from 1844, is very revealing about: http://www.concertina.com/jones/recollections/index.htm, but there are no written records from Jeffries to tell us anything, in fact we know that the man couldn't even sign his own name...

[Stephen Chambers]

Were all Crabbs numbered?

 

By no means David, there seems to be little consistency in whether they got numbered or not, though numbers may have been allocated in the ledgers...

[Dan Worrall]

Thanks, Mike Byrne; I found the Jeffries stamp on one of the rosewood ends....looks just like your photo. I had forgotten that. Oh, and now I remember that I bought it from Alex West. Nice instrument; this is one of the good ones.

[Stephen Chambers]

I have a 26 button wooden ended Jeffries - stamped Jeffries as per Mike Byrne's post - and an unmarked wooden 26 key which has been attributed to crabb. They do look a little different in the fretwork and they sound a little differnt but the reed shoes don't measure significantly differently. Someone who's seen more of these than I have dates them later than you might suppose, so maybe they are from the period when Jeffries made their own concertinas. The stamp is identical to the stamp on my 45 button which I think is clearly later than the J Crabb era.

 

These rosewood-ended ones were probably made over a period of many years, as a cheaper model.

 

Geoff Crabb has written here (http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=17685&p=168900) that "My great grand father John & grand father Henry, made and supplied instruments to: C Jeffries (sen) to about 1895" - which is when the design and workmanship changed, and I believe the Jeffries family started to then make them completely themselves, marked with the advent of the oval Praed Street stamp.

[David Hornett]

Thank you for the link Stephen. In scouting further around Concertina net I read an entry reporting that the Dippers had come across a George Jones with Jeffries Maker stamped on it. Hmm, seems the great Jeffries may not have been quite as great as has been implied.

 

All the best, David

[Stephen Chambers]

Thank you for the link Stephen. In scouting further around Concertina net I read an entry reporting that the Dippers had come across a George Jones with Jeffries Maker stamped on it. Hmm, seems the great Jeffries may not have been quite as great as has been implied.

 

Charles Jeffries senior was a brushmaker by trade David - who, though he played the concertina, had no background in concertina making. But he evidently found he could do better selling concertinas than hawking brushes off a barrow. And yes, he seems to have originally got his concertinas made for him by George Jones - I've seen them too, though they are very, very rare.

 

There's an article "Charles Jeffries: the Concertina Maker" on Concertina.com ( http://www.concertina.com/jeffries/concertina-maker/ ) that I contributed to and gives some background, and I believe there's another one about the instruments in preparation.

 

By the way, there are quite a few concertinas out there that are stamped "C. Jeffries, Maker" and have absolutely NOTHING to do with the firm - it seems you could do better at the pawnbrokers with a Jeffries concertina and people would "fake them up" with a forged stamp. Only a few days ago I had to tell a lady that her daughter's "Jeffries" (which they'd paid €5,000 for on the advice of their teacher ) was actually a Tom Shakespeare...

[David Hornett]

Thank you Stephen. A Shakespeare would not be a bad instrument, in fact if the problem had not been pointed out she may have merrily gone on to the end of her playing days believing the lie, about as bad as believing a Crabb or a Jones to be a Jeffries I would suggest, and it seems that lie runs rampart amongst players. Thank yuo for your input, I have found the discusion fascinating.

 

Thankyou

 

David

Edited September 2, 2015 by David Hornett