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Wheaqtstone C-Bass Layout...


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A while ago I bought a Wheatstone C-bass at an auction and asked David Robertson to restore it.

So far I haven't seen or played it. However I noticed that the layout seems to be different from normal ES fingering.

 

http://www.concertinas.de/concertinas/C-Bass.htm

 

If you watch the red keys ( David confirms that they actually play a C ), you will find that the low C is on the left side! As far as I know it should be on the right side!! So far it didn't make sense to me....

 

Any ideas?

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The C on the left should be tuned 2 octaves down from a treble. This being the lowest note - hence C bass.

 

I have a G bass where the lowest note is G on the right hand side (and the G# tuned as F).

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A while ago I bought a Wheatstone C-bass at an auction and asked David Robertson to restore it.

So far I haven't seen or played it. However I noticed that the layout seems to be different from normal ES fingering.

You should have asked at the SSI. It's actually standard for a "bass", and it has the same fingering as the 56-button bass Aeloa I had with me (and which I know you've played in the past). That fingering is the same as the treble English, except that each button sounds a note two octaves lower than the treble, and the standard bass range goes down only to C (the C two octaves below middle C), rather than to the G below. So compared to a standard treble, the "bass" seems to be missing the bottom row of buttons in both hands. This standard range has come to be known as the "C-bass", regardless of how many buttons and therefore what their highest note might be.

 

There are some -- though I believe not as many -- which do continue down to the G below (SteveS has one; so do I), and these are known as "G-bass", but they're still "bass" because for the same fingering they sound a two octaves below an equivalent treble. According to some old Wheatstone price lists, a concertina sounding three octaves below a treble (for the same fingering) would be a "contra bass", but I've never seen one.

 

On the other hand, an EC sounding one octave below a treble (for the same fingering) is known as a "baritone", but if its range extends downward to include the bass range (down to that "cello C" or lower), it's known as a "bass-baritone" (like Juliette Daum's), just as a treble-voiced EC that extends down to "viola C" is known as a "tenor-treble" and one that extends downward to include the "baritone" range is called a "baritone-treble". In fact, a "bass-baritone" is just like a "tenor-treble" but sounding an octave lower (for the same fingering).

 

I've even seen one "bass-treble" (72-buttons, if I recall correctly)... a "treble" that extends downward beyond the tenor and baritone ranges, all the way down to that low "cello C" of the "bass". Comparing it to a standard "bass", notes of the same pitch are on the same end of the instrument, but the opposite side of the center line.

 

Anyway, I hope you enjoy your "bass" when you get it back from David. :)

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...so is this called a "transposed" bass?... fingering the same, just 2 octaves down...

 

Well, as an instrument one might call it "transposed", or "octave transposed". (One might even say "transposed down by two octaves", but I don't believe I've ever encountered the term "two-octave-transposed".) But since it's an English concertina, calling it a "bass" defines it as transposing downward by two octaves (as compared to treble fingering), so "transposed bass" is redundant.

 

Actually, in this naming convention -- which seems to be what the Wheatstone company used in their ledgers and which is also used by various dealers (among others) today, -- the names have two parts: The first part indicates the lowest note of the range, while the second part indicates the number of octaves of difference from standard treble fingering. For names that seem to have only one part, it's understood that that part is repeated. I.e., "treble" means "treble-treble" and "bass" means "bass-bass".

 

So in this system, "tenor" by itself is meaningless, since there is no "tenor" octave between "treble" and "baritone". In their ledgers and price lists, Wheatstone seems to have always called them "tenor-treble" (well, maybe without the hyphen). Others have found it useful to adopt the simple name "tenor" to designate a 48-button "tenor-treble", while using "tenor-treble" for those TTs with 56 or more buttons. Still others claim that "tenor" by itself denotes an EC transposing down by a fifth, so with a central key of F. But neither of those conventions seems to have been used by the Wheatstone company.

 

Well, that's the game of the name. I hope you enjoy it. ;)

Edited by JimLucas
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Thank's Jim. So there is nothing wrong - neither with my bass nor with me;-)

 

I have two G-basses - one single, one double-action - plus a bass-baritone, but I had no major experiences with a C-bass ( yes, I did try your's many years ago! ).

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