Ptarmigan Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Just posted! Suttner A2: C/G Jeffries type Anglo Concertina with raised ebony ends! Cheers, Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 What is the practical advantage of raised ends. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP3 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I had an early Suttner raised end Anglo and did not find the ergonomics that good. I don't attribute that to Suttner's construction but instead don't think the raised end feature goes well with Anglos. If the palm rests aren't taller than on a flat ended instrument, then your fingers have to be held back more to get them in position to actually play the instrument -- a very unnatural position. IMHO the original reason for the raised ends was to provide more room under the ends for the action. With English models, having the raised portion in the middle of each end did maximize the space for the action since the buttons are in the center of each end. Anglos on the other hand have their buttons offset and thus the raised end feature is of less utility. Given the choice, I would pass on a raised end Anglo in favor of a well designed flat ended one. I doubt that English players would have the same criticisms, but I have no experience playing an English, so they can voice their own opinions. Ross Schlabach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I used to think that raised ends were supposed to provide slightly more sound in lateral directions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Dick, I note that your auction is not viewable from my abode in France , a notice comes up about restrictions in some countries for legal reasons... It does limit one's customer base.... Or perhaps I am surposed to view it through French ebay ... like when trying to buy something from the amazon site of a different country. Dick 2. give me a call when you want to sell that Baritone /Treble...... Raised ends can actually restrict the action height , the space over the Pads.... I've had concertinas where the gromit on the end of the lever clonks into the under side of the ends when the button is hammered down with some enthusiasm.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptarmigan Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 What is the practical advantage of raised ends. ? Hi Rod, As someone who has played Aeola Wheatstones for a number of years, I simply prefer that shape over flat ends, on any Concertina. Some wooden flat-ended Concertinas to me sometimes look almost concave, which I know is just an optical illusion, but when given the option, I'd always go for raised ends. Cheers, Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptarmigan Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 I had an early Suttner raised end Anglo and did not find the ergonomics that good. I don't attribute that to Suttner's construction but instead don't think the raised end feature goes well with Anglos. If the palm rests aren't taller than on a flat ended instrument, then your fingers have to be held back more to get them in position to actually play the instrument -- a very unnatural position. IMHO the original reason for the raised ends was to provide more room under the ends for the action. With English models, having the raised portion in the middle of each end did maximize the space for the action since the buttons are in the center of each end. Anglos on the other hand have their buttons offset and thus the raised end feature is of less utility. Given the choice, I would pass on a raised end Anglo in favor of a well designed flat ended one. I doubt that English players would have the same criticisms, but I have no experience playing an English, so they can voice their own opinions. Ross Schlabach Hi Ross, Having played this Concertina for a few years, I have never had any problem with the ergonomics, despite having long fingers myself. As I pointed out above too, being a player of Wheatstone Aeola English Concertinas too, I am well used to this shape, which may well be why I prefer this design. Visually, for me at least, the raised ends are much more appealing & i have never found this design to be a problem. In fact, if there was actually an ergonomic problem with this design, I'd be very surprised if Suttner wouldn't have heard about it by now, researched it carefully & discontinued this option for his metal & wooden ended instruments. Cheers, Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptarmigan Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 I used to think that raised ends were supposed to provide slightly more sound in lateral directions... Hi, I'm just back from a week long trip to your part of the World, Itzehoe, which as you will know is just north of Hamburg. ... Sadly, I had no time for tunes though. As to your question of volume, I don't really think the raised ends make these Concertinas any louder & quite honestly, they are loud enough anyway for any session I've been in. Cheers, Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptarmigan Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 Dick, I note that your auction is not viewable from my abode in France , a notice comes up about restrictions in some countries for legal reasons... It does limit one's customer base.... Or perhaps I am surposed to view it through French ebay ... like when trying to buy something from the amazon site of a different country. Dick 2. give me a call when you want to sell that Baritone /Treble...... Raised ends can actually restrict the action height , the space over the Pads.... I've had concertinas where the gromit on the end of the lever clonks into the under side of the ends when the button is hammered down with some enthusiasm.. Hi Geoff, I rarely use eBay, so I'm afraid I'm not fully clued in on how to work all the options. I'd be interested though, to know if you can view it on French eBay as I did click on the Worldwide option. Sorry, but at the moment at least, I have no thoughts on selling my beloved Baritone / Treble. The fact is, I play it out at sessions twice a week, but for the past few years have rarely played my Anglo at a Session, which is why I'm selling my Anglos. At Irish Sessions you see, I just love playing my Fiddle & trying to improve my ability on that instrument is a full time job, so I've no time for my Anglos any more. As for your thoughts on the space for buttons on a raised ended Anglo Concertina, I have played this one at sessions with loads of "enthusiasm" & have never come across any problems, like the ones you describe. Of course, I can't talk for other makes of Anglo Concertina with raised ends, but the Suttner, in my experience works perfectly well. Cheers, Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Dick, I note that your auction is not viewable from my abode in France , a notice comes up about restrictions in some countries for legal reasons... It does limit one's customer base.... Or perhaps I am surposed to view it through French ebay ... like when trying to buy something from the amazon site of a different country. Dick 2. give me a call when you want to sell that Baritone /Treble...... Raised ends can actually restrict the action height , the space over the Pads.... I've had concertinas where the gromit on the end of the lever clonks into the under side of the ends when the button is hammered down with some enthusiasm.. Hi Geoff, I rarely use eBay, so I'm afraid I'm not fully clued in on how to work all the options. I'd be interested though, to know if you can view it on French eBay as I did click on the Worldwide option. Sorry, but at the moment at least, I have no thoughts on selling my beloved Baritone / Treble. The fact is, I play it out at sessions twice a week, but for the past few years have rarely played my Anglo at a Session, which is why I'm selling my Anglos. At Irish Sessions you see, I just love playing my Fiddle & trying to improve my ability on that instrument is a full time job, so I've no time for my Anglos any more. As for your thoughts on the space for buttons on a raised ended Anglo Concertina, I have played this one at sessions with loads of "enthusiasm" & have never come across any problems, like the ones you describe. Of course, I can't talk for other makes of Anglo Concertina with raised ends, but the Suttner, in my experience works perfectly well. Cheers, Dick Tried Ebay.fr and no joy.... not that I'm in the market you understand.... I'm sure Jürgen got his design spot on and there are no tapping noises coming from anywhere above the player's foot. Good luck with your sale, Geoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptarmigan Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 Tried Ebay.fr and no joy.... not that I'm in the market you understand.... I'm sure Jürgen got his design spot on and there are no tapping noises coming from anywhere above the player's foot. Good luck with your sale, Geoff. Thanks for checking Geoff. I've no idea if I can change any of the settings now, but if not it doesn't really matter, as I'm sure it'll probably sell over here, or if not at least in the UK. Aye, plenty foot tapping going on sessions these days, especially that double & single ~ two-footed tapping that has become so trendy recently, not to mention all that cheesy winking that you see the young ones at, too. ... but I guess that's just me, turning into an Old Fart! Cheers, Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian brown Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I had an early Suttner raised end Anglo and did not find the ergonomics that good. I don't attribute that to Suttner's construction but instead don't think the raised end feature goes well with Anglos. If the palm rests aren't taller than on a flat ended instrument, then your fingers have to be held back more to get them in position to actually play the instrument -- a very unnatural position. IMHO the original reason for the raised ends was to provide more room under the ends for the action. With English models, having the raised portion in the middle of each end did maximize the space for the action since the buttons are in the center of each end. Anglos on the other hand have their buttons offset and thus the raised end feature is of less utility. Given the choice, I would pass on a raised end Anglo in favor of a well designed flat ended one. I doubt that English players would have the same criticisms, but I have no experience playing an English, so they can voice their own opinions. Ross Schlabach Jürgen's raised end models could be more accurately described as "lowered sides" models, as the action box sides are lower than the flat end models while the action geometry is the same. As Ross described, this has the effect of putting the buttons relatively higher in proportion to the height of the hand rest, because the hand rests are positioned on the "lower" part of the endplate. However unlike him, I actually find this more comfortable than the high hand rests on Jürgen's flat end models. I actually had to ask him to lower the hand rests on one of his instruments for me, to bring the ergonomics more in line with traditional anglos. I guess it just depends on the size of your hands, what you're used to and perhaps more importantly, whether you play standing up, which tends to sharpen your sensibility for this sort of thing. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I'm just back from a week long trip to your part of the World, Itzehoe, which as you will know is just north of Hamburg. That's the town of my elementary education, back in the 60s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Raised ends. I wonder if they evolved simply because they look quite nice. Can't be easy to construct, and as I suspected they probably perform no particular function. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptarmigan Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 I'm just back from a week long trip to your part of the World, Itzehoe, which as you will know is just north of Hamburg. That's the town of my elementary education, back in the 60s... Hmmmm interesting. I wonder if you went to school with my wife ~ Sabine Englert? I met her many years later, when I was living in West Berlin & playing with an Irish Band around the Irish Pubs there. This trip though, we spent most of our time in the nearby town of - Henstedt Ulzburg Cheers, Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptarmigan Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 Raised ends. I wonder if they evolved simply because they look quite nice. Can't be easy to construct, and as I suspected they probably perform no particular function. ? That would be my take on them Rod & I certainly think the raised ends make them look classier. However, we mustn't knock features which are added to instruments simply for aesthetic reasons. After all, such features have added so much to our musical instruments down through the years. Cheers, Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now