JimLucas Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 My friend bought the Lachenal baritone recently for sale in Sweden. I've gotten all the reeds working properly, except one reed, which when it sounds, the adjacent reed also sounds, though not as strongly. Simple. Leakage between the chambers, right? But attempts to close potential gaps have had no effect. And it only happens on the one of the pair of notes; no "leakage" in the other direction. And... it only happens on the push, not the pull. I thought of a loose spring -- which might explain the push-only, -- but aside from the fact that forcing the pad to stay closed doesn't eliminate the problem, I would expect that to let it sound with more than just the one adjacent note. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Day Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 As i know how thorough you are Jim I will miss out the obvious that you would have checked,so I will run through a few unusual one I have come across. The little triangular wood block that the reed pan sits on could be loose, or dropped, or a slight warpage of the reed pan in that area could do it.A little bit of chamois leather on the block would just lift it enough to stop the problem.The most usual is that the spring of the button you are pushing could be interfering with the adjacent spring only slightly is enough to create the problem you mention.As sometimes the angle of pushing can be different to pulling on the button is the pad just touching on the adjacent one lifting it at a slight angle ? A few thoughts there Jim. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) Checked for warps in the pallet board ? Just thinking 'big instrument' more chance of wood movement, Instrument lived in a dry climate for a while ..... Is the reed pan a good firm fit in the Bellows ? Chamois problems? Bellows blocks not holding the Pan up.... Valve pin missing and thus small hole through side wall of chamber ?? Hmmmm... cross posted with Al. Edited January 29, 2015 by Geoff Wooff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasse Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) hmmm!? Working on other peoples boxes? Didn't you just recently mail me saying you didn't have enough time to do any repair work on your boxes... Now I clearly understand why!!!! About your question: Knowing you I guess you have already checked the most obvious, but sometimes small things round the reed often need a second or third look to be detected, like - minor issues concerning the valve, the reed shoe itself, hardly visible micro cracks/wrapings that slip tiny amounts of air - all small things that can make a single reed sound a little and make you go crazy In these cases it's often the first checked obvious that turns out to be the problem after all. but with a tiny twist! BTW. Are you fixing this box in Denmark or up north in Jämtland? Because that could of course be the cause of this problem - change in climate - from dry to more humidity Edited January 30, 2015 by Hasse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Problem fixed, but still puzzled. Yes, I had checked all the things you friends had mentioned. So I decided to start over from the beginning. Tried again with tiny slips of paper on the top and at the bellows-wall end of the partition separating the two chambers. Thinner paper. The "leakage" stopped. If it continues OK, I'll try similarly thin leather (which is currently at a different location), and if that works I'll make it permanent. Three things that still puzzle me: Why did my first attempt at sealing those "cracks" fail, while the later attempt succeeded? The thickness and area of my paper shims seems far too small to account for the volume of the leakage they have stopped. As noted in my original post, what explanation can there be for the leakage being only one way between the chambers and only one way in terms of bellows direction? I guess at least those first two are pretty much rhetorical questions, since I don't expect anyone to be able to give a definitive answer without actually seeing the instrument. Thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 hmmm!? Working on other peoples boxes? Didn't you just recently mail me saying you didn't have enough time to do any repair work on your boxes... Now I clearly understand why!!!! Hej Hasse. Well, this concertina sounded pretty special, so I went to see it, then recommended that Jane buy it. (I couldn't afford it. Besides, I already have a baritone-treble Aeola.) At the seller's home, I adjusted all the reeds and they seemed OK. I became the delivery service, and during the few days before I got it to Stockholm, I of course played it, and this double-sounding cropped up. But all the time spent on "repairs" has been essentially "in transit". BTW. Are you fixing this box in Denmark or up north in Jämtland? Because that could of course be the cause of this problem - change in climate - from dry to more humidity First in Halmstad (the seller's home), then in Helsingør, finally in Stockholm itself. Probably more affected by day-to-day changes in weather than changes in location. The seller (who, incidentally, was one of the participants in our very first Scandinavian Squeeze-In, but has since become more interested in the banjo) did say that changes in the seasons resulted in problems with a few reeds but that these "cured themselves" when the seasons changed back. Anyway, Jane has it now, and I expect her to give it a good workout before I see her again on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDNICKILBY Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Jim I was once offered a lovely Wheatstone Duet 68 key (?) . When I tried to take the ends off the bloke selling it said"It was leaking a bit so I cured it with Araldite " Silly bugger had glued the ends together. Perhaps if your repair doesn't work you might like to try this cure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Jim I was once offered a lovely Wheatstone Duet 68 key (?) . When I tried to take the ends off the bloke selling it said"It was leaking a bit so I cured it with Araldite " Silly bugger had glued the ends together. Perhaps if your repair doesn't work you might like to try this cure Thank you for sharing this exhilarating story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Jim I was once offered a lovely Wheatstone Duet 68 key (?) . When I tried to take the ends off the bloke selling it said"It was leaking a bit so I cured it with Araldite " Silly bugger had glued the ends together. Perhaps if your repair doesn't work you might like to try this cure Or I could just remove the reed that's making the unwanted sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Day Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I remember a problem with a concertina that I screwed back together and most of the reads on one side were playing without me pushing a button. What I had done was trap the strap inside the box when I screwed it up.I certainly called myself a few names . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann-p Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Alan, glad the pros can make a few bloops! Gives heart and hope to us amateurs. Next job for my box is three (I think) pinholes in the bellows. Have to decide whether to tackle it myself or pass it over to one of the pros! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAc Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) . Edited March 4, 2016 by RAc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveS Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Jim I was once offered a lovely Wheatstone Duet 68 key (?) . When I tried to take the ends off the bloke selling it said"It was leaking a bit so I cured it with Araldite " Silly bugger had glued the ends together. Perhaps if your repair doesn't work you might like to try this cure I have a Jones EC where someone has glued in the reed pans I'm reluctant to even attempt the repairs on this one yet - not until I'm feeling brave enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Day Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Alan, glad the pros can make a few bloops! Gives heart and hope to us amateurs. Next job for my box is three (I think) pinholes in the bellows. Have to decide whether to tackle it myself or pass it over to one of the pros! I came across this problem a number of times whilst reparing concertinas and the usual problem was that moth lavae get in to eat the wool on the pads and fall into the bellows they then munch their way out through the bellows leaving a perfect small diameter hole.Woodworm can do the same damage. Not sure about me being a pro Ann more a hardened cockney grafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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