Persevere Or Find Alternative Route?

[HansiRowe]

Hi All...

 

It's now been almost 2 months since I started to learn to play the concertina. I have been plodding along very slowly with my 20 keyed Anglo, sometimes trying to learn to play tunes by ear as well as using tabs for a variety of different musical styles. While squeezing away over this period, I've made a few general observations about my 'playing' and my concertina, as well as faced a few difficulties that I would like your expert opinions about...

 

One observation is, I remember thinking at the beginning that I would have problems with the air-button because of the shape of my thumb, etc. but, strangely enough, I've got used to this now and hardly ever give it a thought these days. But, remaining on the topic of air… a really big problem for me has been running out of puff. For example, I have been learning a few tunes from Gary Coover's 'Civil War Concertina', and, if we take the very first tune 'Amazing Grace', I have been playing at exactly the same speed as Gary (on YouTube) but, my 5 bellows run out of air while Gary's 6 seem to cope easily. I find myself pulling the bellows open to almost their full extent in an attempt to play a complete passage along with Gary without the need for a quick gulp… but it still doesn't quite make it. This is a shame as it breaks up what should be a nice, smooth phrase… Gary's able to play these phrases without any extra air but I'm not. is this really the lack of bellows or is it me?

 

However, my main question is what to do about those odd tricky passages that come along every now and then… there are a few tunes that I can play reasonably well (well, that's what my wife tells me and I never disagree!) until I reach a certain spot that throws a spanner in the works! I have tried and tried to play them for weeks now, I have broken the difficult section down into bite-sized portions, tried to learn just a couple of notes at a time,and then tried to string them together, very slowly but, for some reason, I just cannot play them and they remain, after weeks of practice, just as difficult and unplayable as ever. I can manage if I find an alternative way to play them but, I feel as if this is cheating, that it's a negative way forward, and that I'm letting myself down by avoiding the problem. I'm sure that other players, past and present, have conjured up their own way of playing a well known and established tune, ways that suit them best, but I'm not sure if they do/did this because they just prefer another way, or if, like me, they were faced with a problem that wouldn't go away. Should I keep persevering or just enjoy the concertina, not worry too much about keeping to the original way and find an alternative way to overcome the problem?

 

I know that 2 months is a ridiculously short period in the scheme of things and, most certainly things will get easier (he says with fingers crossed while rubbing his lucky rabbit foot charm!) as I gain more experience, but what do some of you newer players do when/if faced with a difficult passage that seems impossible to master… at least for the time being?

 

Cheers, John

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Geoff Wooff]

Firstly John, your concertina . it is probable that it is not as air efficient as the one Gary Coover plays.... as I recall you imported a 20 key Lachenal ? Well, between possible air leakages, age of the instrument and porosity of the bellows leather etc... the way the reeds are set, the valves, the fit of the reedpan in the bellows frame etc etc... there are plenty of places that a concertina could be using more air than it might...

 

A 20key Lachenal will not generally have the first grade reeds in it ( see the thread about "hammering reed frames") and the reed tongue to frame gap may be slighly larger than on thier best instruments... and all these little things will increase the amount of air used ... combine with a five fold bellows... and voila le difference!

 

I have a five fold Lachenal bellows which ,in itself is not in bad condition, has slightly shallower folds than some ... I think they are 25mm deep from valley to top whereas most bellows are 28mm.... this can make a big difference in expanded length. Also try the drop test; hold your concertina with bellows closed, in a vertical position and let go of the under side to see how long it takes to fully open under its own weight ... or try fully expanded and hold the lower end. on my own instruments the drop time can vary from 30 seconds ( still playable) to 115 seconds ( very air tight concertina with new bellows).....

 

Find Ormond Waters in your neck of the woods and see how his concertina compares.

 

 

Two months is nothing with regard to learning a new instrument..... one keyboard I have played for 44 years and still find difficult passages that need lots of work... another keyboard I have been learning this last year and I'd forgot just how hard it is to begin... some passages are impossibly dificult as yet.

 

Do not despair!

Edited November 5, 2014 by Geoff Wooff

[Steve Mansfield]

I've been playing concertina for 9 years and am still learning.

 

I've been playing flute for over 30 years and am still learning.

 

The cellist Pablo Casals was asked, at the age of 93, why he still practised for three hours every day. His answer: I'm beginning to see some improvement.

 

If you're getting somewhere after two months you're doing well. So ... persevere!

[HansiRowe]

Thanks very much Geoff and Steve… yes, I suppose, lurking in the back of my mind, I knew the answer all along and that there's never an easy solution or an alternative route around these obstacles! I started drawing & painting when I was 4 years old, carried on all through school like a crazy person, carried on non-stop as a profession for my whole life, I'm now 65 and yes… I'm still learning! In the back of my mind I guess that I really wanted to hear that I should persevere… it just wouldn't have felt right to me to avoid the problem, so thanks for giving me the push and encouragement that I needed to struggle on with it! I am definitely making progress generally, albeit very slowly, but what I've learnt so far is a real joy…

 

Yes Geoff, a 20 buttoned Lachenal anglo is the beast in question… I tried the drop test and I think that it could definitely be more airtight, it took about 20 seconds to open to a point where it stopped dropping, but the bellows were not completely open, there was still about an inch to go. I guess that's not a good result but for an 1885 instrument maybe it's around average, what do you think?

 

Thanks again for your encouragement and advice… cheers, John

[adrian brown]

I've been playing concertina for 9 years and am still learning.

 

I've been playing flute for over 30 years and am still learning.

 

The cellist Pablo Casals was asked, at the age of 93, why he still practised for three hours every day. His answer: I'm beginning to see some improvement.

 

If you're getting somewhere after two months you're doing well. So ... persevere!

 

And the nice thing is that you can always improve in music - with sports like running/swimming/cycling, you're just fighting a losing battle from around age 28 or so...

 

Adrian

[hjcjones]

Apart from the probable inefficiencies in your instrument, a 30-key (or more) instrument offers far more alternative fingerings which don't require a change in bellows direction.

 

Learning to manage the air available in your bellows is one of the playing skills that takes time to acquire. If it's any consolation, a less efficient instrument is a good incentive to develop this skill, and this will stand you in good stead when you come to upgrade.

[Roger Hare]

My first attempt at making this post was 'orribly mangled by the ancient machine I was using,

so now I'll try and clean it up...

 

It's nice to know that I am not the only novice on this forum. I have been playing for almost 6 weeks

on a 20 button C/G Lachenal.

 

I suppose different folks have different expectations, but I am a musical illiterate (learning fast though!),

and all I am after, in the first instance at least, is the building up of a repertoire of 'simple' tunes to

entertain mostly myself, but sometimes my long-sufferin' sailing buddies when we go to French festivals.

I have been doing this by (1) stumbling through printed sheet music (only in C or G so far!); (2) 'winging

it' by ear; (3) using the tablature in the printed tutor I have purchased.

 

I must say that it is all going remarkably well - I am a better concertina player after 6 weeks than I am a

a guitar player after 40 years (that's not saying much though!)! The main thing is that I am having an

absolute blast - what a fabulous instrument!

 

I've managed to knock off about a dozen simple tunes so far, all old favourites, and I wonder if

choosing tunes which are old favourites makes it 'easier' to work 'em out? I've managed to retain

the bulk of these tunes in my decrepit and failing memory, and I reackon if I can do this, so can

you.

 

I too am trying tricky bits, and have to play them over and over - only a few notes here and there,

and the fingers simply won't do what you want them to do. Keep at it - the little buggers will start

obeying instructions after a while, I'm sure, and it's worth it at the end (as I say - what a fabulous

instrument!).

 

The other thing I am doing which I haven't seen mentioned in these forums is - keeping a set of notes,

searching out sheet music, transposing it to C or G using an ABC editor, writing tunes out using the

tablature system in my tutor to record the tunes alongside the sheet music, etc. and saving all this in a

Open Office document and converting to a PDF file which I then carry around on my tablet. I find this a

useful way of recording progress. I don't know if anyone else adopts this slightly pedantic approach.

 

I've also found Roger Digby's article 'Faking It' on concertina.com very useful, as are the accompanying

dozen examples in both sheet music and audio form. I don't remember seeing these resources mentioned

here so far?

 

RD seems to be a strong advocate of the 'practice, practice, practice' school of management. Seems like

sound advice to me!

 

Keep on 'squeezin would be my advice!

 

Roger.

Edited November 5, 2014 by lachenal74693

[Geoff Wooff]

At any age ,I think one cannot advance more quickly by practicing harder or longer , it just takes time for the brain and muscle memory to sink-in and as we get older hat will take longer... think how quickly children pick things up.... or try leaning a new language after the age of 60....

 

Give yourself a year and you should start to feel it all sinking in....

 

But don't think that you should not also give those alternative routes (fingerings) a try.

[Alan Day]

If you do not mind I would like to run over a few things with you.The most common faults than learners have is firstly controlling the pull notes as opposed to the push..Many slur the pull notes dragging too much air through the reed as you need to.Practice short sharp pull notes that are easy on the push.Secondly practice slightly opening up the air button as you play so that you can actually drag air in without changing the sound of what you are playing.This is very difficult and requires considerable practice, but you will appreciate the time you put in on this exercise. Thirdly investigate to see if you have notes in the opposite direction to those you normally play.The best way of doing this is to write out on two large sheets of paper Left Hand notes push/pull and Right hand notes push and pull. You hear many mention across row playing,this is used to make things easier for you,notes in opposite direction, notes for short cuts to play passages easier. Many of us experience the same difficulties even with accidentals and quite often lovely chords you wish to use are in the opposite direction to the way you normally play,so you have to look for a note(notes) that sorts it all out. If air is a major problem it may be necessary to put in a little couple of grace notes to enable you to use the air button to drag the air in to enable you to play the tune.All these things come from experimentation and just a few tricks will take you to a new level.

Al

[Rod]

John, I expect there are occasions when you wish your five-fold bellows had six folds, in the same way that there are occasions when I wish that my six-fold bellows had seven folds. I sometimes even dream of eight-fold before rapidly rejoining the real world !

[d.elliott]

I think Mr. Coover is operating on 7 folds. Which gives him an advantage even if there were no air efficiency and bellows design differences. 40% more air, all things being equal.

 

As far as smoothing out the tricky bits is concerned, start playing with another musician or two. Playing on our own we all tend to play in flexi-time, faster on easy bits and slower on hard bits, with changes in rhythm on semi quavers & triplets where it is awkward on the fingers or lots of dots to navigate in a couple of bars. Playing alongside others forces you to come to terms with these natural aberrations.

[Rod]

I doubt that any of us had much to offer after less than 2 months of attempting to play the instrument from scratch.

[gcoover]

John,

First of all, thanks, and hope you continue to enjoy the "Civil War Concertina" book! It's written exclusively for 20-button Anglo. But I almost didn't include "Amazing Grace", because even with a 7-fold bellows on a very tight Herrington Anglo I was often running out of air too! I initially wanted to record all the tunes on the 20-button Lachenal pictured on the cover, but with 5-folds it just didn't have quite enough air power, so I chose the Herrington instead since it's my main squeeze. Most of the tunes are arranged to have enough back and forth built in to work on a smaller bellows, but "Amazing Grace" just calls out for long drones to mimic the bagpipes, and with lots of long phrases in one direction, it can be quite a challenge.

 

So, in addition to the other excellent suggestions in this thread, you also might want to try playing this one fairly quietly - beginners often push way too hard trying to force the music out. You can also try gulping air between phrases, or sneaking a little air at the same time while playing one of the notes just before you get to a phrase that uses too much air (you'll see in the video I have to do it quite often, you will eventually get used to doing this as-needed without hurting the volume). You can also resort to leaving some of the harmony notes out if need be - lower notes will typically use more air. And you can also speed it up a bit. Or make your own simpler arrangement. It might take a combination of all of these to make it work.

 

As to your other question, alternative ways of playing something is definitely NOT cheating - it's how you get the job done! Comes with the territory and the instrument, and you'll find you often need lots of little tricks to work around the eccentricities of individual instruments. But it sounds like you're doing amazingly well after only 2 months. After a few more months of working with and around the limitations of your instrument I bet you'll be just fine. If there's a particular section you're struggling with and are stuck, feel free to send me a PM and I'll be happy to help any way I can.

 

Gary

[CaryK]

Removed by Cary. My comment was redundant.

Edited November 6, 2014 by CaryK

[HansiRowe]

Wow… thank you so much everybody, all these amazing replies, I hardly know where to begin! Thanks Aybee, yes, thankfully musicians have a longer 'shelf-life' than athletes and, as far as an instrument like the concertina goes, we should be able to carry on to a ripe old age (I think this topic has also been covered somewhere else in the form?).

 

" If it's any consolation, a less efficient instrument is a good incentive to develop this skill, and this will stand you in good stead when you come to upgrade."

Yes Howard, this is what I'm hoping for. I started off many years ago playing playing a warped baroque flute and a guitar with such a high string action that I had to adapt to these extra difficulties. Later, when I upgraded to better instruments I couldn't believe the difference and how much easier they were to play!

Thanks for your sharing your own difficulties and progress report Roger, it's nice to hear from a fellow novice!

"But don't think that you should not also give those alternative routes (fingerings) a try."

Thanks Geoff. After reading somewhere that it's a bad habit to just stick to playing up and down the rows, I have been trying to play across the rows as well, even though it's very limited with 20 buttons. I start off following the suggested, or written way, and then I play around looking for an alternative way. Sometimes, this might only result in finding one or two notes in a more convenient place, but it's slowly helping me find my way around the keyboards. Sometimes, when an alternative note is an octave higher or lower, it can add a little 'surprise' or interesting change in tone, etc.

Thanks Al for all that expert advice. As far as notes on the pull go, I have only noticed that if I try to play too quickly, particularly left hand notes, I'm sometimes still half holding a button down from a push note, or vice versa, resulting in an unwanted note, albeit for a fraction of a second, before my next selected note. However, this hasn't really been a problem, when playing at a speed that I can cope with it doesn't happen. Opening the air valve at the same time as playing a note is something that I've read about but haven't tried yet. My problem seems to be on a long phrase of push notes… I open the bellows and start to play but the bellows end up completely closed and empty of air while I'm only two thirds of the way through the phrase… I try to play as gently and quietly as possible to preserve air but I still run out, and I can't use the valve technique because all the notes were on the push. If there happens to be a pull note halfway through then I guess this would be the moment to open the air valve to get a bigger gulp in, which would then allow me to reach the end of the phrase. This ties in with finding an alternative note, as you say, a note in the opposite direction from which I normally play, a pull note halfway through a long phrase of push notes, allowing me to use the valve at the same time to get that extra air. I will start to practice this.

"I expect there are occasions when you wish your five-fold bellows had six folds.."

You're right there Rod! It will be like stepping up from a Mini to a RR the day I upgrade to 30 buttons and 6 or 7 folds! What luxury…!!

"Playing alongside others forces you to come to terms with these natural aberrations."

Thanks Dave. Yes, I well remember when learning to play the flute what a shock to the system it was the first time I stared to play with other musicians! I also remember buying an LP of classical backing music, it had the lead part missing so that budding musicians could play along… that was quite an eye-opener too! This is why I sometimes try to play along with a piece on YouTube… for example Peter Trimming's 'Shepherd's Hey' or with Gary's 'Amazing Grace' mentioned above. In a couple of months I hope to start playing along side a friend of mine who's a brilliant guitarist and ukulele player...

"I doubt that any of us had much to offer after less than 2 months of attempting to play the instrument from scratch."

Actually Rod, if I think back to when I first started, just two months ago, and think about my efforts now… I'm starting to feel a little bit happier with my progress. You know how it goes, one day you feel as if everything's progressing wonderfully and nothing can stop you, and then, the next day you feel like you're going nowhere at all and want to give it all up and take up virtuoso 'triangle' instead! So far, I play my own version of 'Be Gone Dull Care' with left hand accompaniment. I've learnt Gary's 'Amazing Grace' off by heart and I'm just learning 'Weeping, Sad & Lonely', I've also learnt Al's 'Oscar Wood's Jig' off by heart in C (except for one little tricky high bit that I get stuck on every time!), Peter Trimming's version of 'Shepherds Hey' off by heart and almost at full speed, some odd chords and scales, and the odd Irish tune melody that I'm trying to work out the left hand chord accompaniment for… right hand melodies are no problem at all, it's co-ordinating that left hand accompaniment that's the big problem. As Geoff says, give myself a year and it should all start sinking in!

And finally Gary… I just love your civil war tunes, what a fantastic collection! Thanks so much for making my day by telling me that you almost didn't include 'Amazing Grace' and that you too, even with a 7 fold bellows, run out of air! I have to say, I hadn't noticed this as you seem to play it with such ease and smoothness. Yes, trying to hold that drone is why I run out of air so quickly. I have been trying it with a little more success by, as you mention above, leaving out some of the lower harmony notes, but it does sound thinner by doing this and the full harmonies just sound beautiful, so I'm going to struggle on with it. I have tried playing it very quietly, in fact, my anglo is so loud I tend to play just about everything at half strength, and I just can't bring myself to speed up 'Amazing Grace'… it's one of those tunes that would, for me at least, loose its grace completely if played too fast...

Thanks so much too for your kind offer to help me out with a particular section that I'm struggling with… I have already made a couple of 'adaptions' in 'Weeping, Sad & Lonely'… that drone problem again, which I am finding a way around, and then there are one or two four-finger chords that sound absolutely heavenly to play and listen to but are almost impossible for me to get my fingers around… if you don't mind I will send you a PM about those. Thanks so much for your help.

Okay, I have almost written a novel here, I had better stop… thank you again everybody for all your help and advice, this has given me a lot to think about and to try and put into practice… this forum and all its experts and passionate players not only make learning fun and understandable, it gives novices like myself the encouragement to carry on when the going gets tough! Thanks so much, cheers, John

[gcoover]

John,

I just now tried it on my 20-button Lachenal with 5-fold bellows and would offer the following workarounds:

 

In measures 1, 5, 9, &13 you can play the left hand chord of "3" and "5" twice instead of holding for a drone, and can certainly shorten any of the drones.

 

Or, for the eighth note couplet of "2" and "1" on the right hand push in measures 1, 5 & 13 you can use the left hand pull of "10" and "9" instead, buying you some much needed air in the other direction.

 

And you can also play the push "2" in measure 8 as a left hand pull "10" instead while also grabbing some air (hmmm, I like using that #10 much better, might have to change to that for future copies).

 

Hope this helps!

 

Gary

Edited November 6, 2014 by gcoover

[HansiRowe]

Thanks very much Gary… yes, this does help a lot with the shortage of air although, playing 10 & 9 on the pull instead of the eighth note couplet of 2 &1 on the push doesn't sound quite as nice as the original 2 & 1 over the 5 & 3 drone… I guess it's one of those situations where playability just has to be the main factor. I like that 10 pull alternative in bar 8 as well, and gives some much needed air in preparation for bars 9 &10 on the push… thanks so much for working this out for me, I really appreciate that. That 10 pull is also a good place for me to practice using the air valve while simultaneously playing the note...

 

In 'Weeping, Sad & Lonely' 1st bar, I have changed the left hand 10 push for right hand 2 pull, stopping the drone while pulling and then continuing the drone for the 2-1-5-4 run down… this just about gives me enough air to complete that whole first phrase, the same again in bars 5,9, & 21 Bar 13 is okay as it already has the 3 on the pull… The 3rd bar D7 chord using 4 fingers is a bit of a challenge at the moment and needs some more practice to hit all the correct buttons. I love the little run between left and right hand in bar 9, so simple and yet still catching me out… I'll get it eventually! This is such a beautiful and haunting tune and one of my all time favourites...

 

Thanks again Gary for all the time you are taking in helping me out… cheers, John

[Mikefule]

Assuming you have a 2 row in CG, you have the following notes available on push:

C E G on the C row

G B D on the G row

 

You have the following notes on the pull:

D F A B on the C row

A C E F# on the G row

 

And therefore these notes are available in both directions:

CDEB

 

And two options in the same direction for each of:

Push: G

Pull: A

 

There are at least 3 common ways to play a C major scale on the right hand.

 

With a little bit of planning and crossing the rows and careful use of the air button, and playing at a sensible volume, you should be able to achieve a lot.

 

It's a tricky instrument - very rewarding, but sometimes it's like a Rubik's Cube you can play with in the dark. Sometimes progress is slow: after 2 months you are barely scratching the surface of what you and the instrument can do together.