How Old?

[bill_mchale]

Well just a guess, but when one considers that the price of a decent concertina starts close to $2000 new, it is an instrument that is going to select out people with out much discretionary income; students, parents in young families, etc. often can't afford to spend that much money on a hobby.

 

Check for unspoken assumptions: We (the Concertina.net members) aren't all just taking up the intrument now! Some of us have been playing for 30 years or more. Besides, a lump sum purchase isn't the only way to get started, and several members here have admitted to starting on something less than "decent", i.e., rather less than $2000.

 

 

Well mind you I was not saying that it was an absolute prohibition from starting before a certain point in one's life. At the Catskills this past year I had the pleasure of meeting a boy who was maybe 12 or 13 and played quite a few Irish Tunes on a Stagi quite convincingly. I am sure it is also the case that some younger players are giving quite nice concertinas by others to encourage their interest. And of course you can rent instruments from the Button Box and perhaps some other sources.

 

The point is that there are a number of impediments that are likely to filter out at least some of the population of younger players. Apparent cost of instruments is certainly going to filter out a fair number of people, as is lack of exposure to concertinas (obviously this is regional...)

 

Another factor of course is that often when people hit their 30s or later and their careers are established they start thinking about doing things that they may have though about in their youth but never got around to... the same is likely true of those in their mid-40s to early 50s whose families are grown (or older if they put off getting married and starting a family).

 

So ultimately yes there are young players, some extremely talented but in folk and traditional music genres I don't think it is uncommon at all see as many or even more beginners over the age of 30 than under the age of 30.. or even under 20.

 

--

Bill

[John Wild]

Maybe some extra food for thoughts or discussion. From the recognizable (male) user photo's, it appears that 21 out of 32 grows facial hair (most of them a beard). This is much more than you might expect from a group of "normal men" .

And all this time I've thought I WAS normal

 

- John

[JimLucas]

I just remembered to look at Allan Atlas' survey of concertina players. Though response was low (about 1/10 as many recorded responders as current members of Concertina.net), its statistics should be a better indication than the even sparser avatar pictures. Here are the responses to three relevant questions:

 

Current age?

.. 20s = 1

.. 30s = 5

.. 40s = 24

.. 50s = 33

.. 60s = 8

.. 70s = 1

.. 80s = 2

[Does this indicate that people in their 40's and 50's are more likely to play concertina, or just that they're more likely to answer surveys like this one?]

 

How long have you been playing the concertina?

.. a. less than one year = 10

.. b. 1-5 years = 18

.. c. 5-10 years = 12

.. d. 10-25 years = 15

.. e. more than 25 years = 15

 

At what age did you begin?

.. teens = 5

.. 20s = 12

.. 30s = 14

.. 40s = 23

.. 50s = 8

.. 60s = 4

.. 80s = 1

 

[Edited to add my own question/comment.]

Edited November 17, 2004 by JimLucas

[Steven]

Well, I'm 36, but I started playing concertina early this year, when I was a mere 35. I've always tried to keep my face bald except on the occassional day when I don't bother to shave (usually Sundays when I have nowhere to go).

 

I think Peter Laban (who lives in Ireland) pointed out something very relevant -- this speculation about people starting later in life mostly applies to places where the traditional music is not as strong a part of the culture. Where he lives, children often play traditional music on traditional instruments. Where I live (the US), most children have never even heard of concertinas or the music that's played on them. Obviously there are plenty of exceptions, but that's outside the mainstream of the culture.

 

Steven

[Tina]

There are bound to be plenty of exceptions at either end of the range but I do get the feeling in the light of the above discussions that the "core" of players have a propensity to be middle-aged, middle-income  males with a higher incidence of beardies than normal and probably playing middle of the road tunes on middle of the range instruments. Apologies of course to the ladies among us - the beards don't apply in your case!

Protest - we aged ladies are blessed with facial hair, too !

[Alan Day]

I have a wonderful picture of me in full Morris kit and beard standing next to the Reverent Kenneth Lovelace on the steps of Guildford Cathederal playing for the Morris Dancers at the Morris ring weekend.Very shortly after this I went to a Folk evening and dance and every male there had a beard.That was enough for me the next day I shaved it off and I have not had one since.One day when I have worked out how to do it I will post the picture for you.

I started playing at thirty and now I am sixty four,but as I have always looked twenty years younger than I am and fairly active ,I feel about the age I look.

Now where did I put my Zimmer frame?

Al

[JimLucas]

I think Peter Laban (who lives in Ireland) pointed out something very relevant -- this speculation about people starting later in life mostly applies to places where the traditional music is not as strong a part of the culture.  Where he lives, children often play traditional music on traditional instruments.

I already mentioned Sweden, where some kids start playing traditional fiddle at 4 years old or even younger, and where a local festival can crowd a dance floor with fiddlers under 10 years old. Concertinas are much rarer than fiddles, but there are so many young people involved in the music that there are even a few interested in the concertina.

 

Over on this Danish side of Øresund (on the Swedish side it's spelled Öresund) the traditional music is much less strong. Fewer youth in general, and none that I know to be playing the concertina.

 

Yes, I think the age at which people take up concertina definitely correlates to the age at which they take up any instrument, and it varies from community to community.

[bill_mchale]

Yes, I think the age at which people take up concertina definitely correlates to the age at which they take up any instrument, and it varies from community to community.

Well I would think it also depends on whether concertina has any place at all in a particular genre. After all lots of kids start learning to play classical music when they are quite young; unforunately concertina is rarely thought of as a classical instrument so it usually isn't considered an option for them. The same can be said of rock or country or any of a hundred or a thousand different genres where concertinas are essentially non-existent. Apparently (me knowing nothing about Scandinavian music) it does have a place in traditional Scandinavian Music as it does in Irish and English music.

 

--

Bill

[JimLucas]

Apparently (me knowing nothing about Scandinavian music) it does have a place in traditional Scandinavian Music as it does in Irish and English music.

Nope. As of 10 years ago, probably none at all. (Salvation Army doesn't count.) But the Swedes are open-minded about their music. My concertina and I are always welcomed when I try to play along with Swedish tunes.

 

But now there are a few Swedish concertina players, at least one of whom is very strong. (I must prod him again about doing a CD.) And in a culture where many young folks are still more attached to their fiddles than to their CD players or even cell phones, a few of them have seen the concertina and decided that is what they want to play. I have aided and abetted them by loaning out a few instruments. I look forward to seeing what develops over the next few years.

[Helen]

Oh Al,

 

I am so impressed that you have played the concertina for so many years. I was gonna use that as an excuse for why I would never play well, but that's dumb. The more you play, the better, hopefully, you get. Unless you keep playing something dreadfully wrong.

 

But I am happy just tootling along and enjoying the concertina. Maybe later, I'll push myself harder as I have done with other instruments. But I am really enjoying just muddling along. And as I don't subject anyone else to listening to me, I guess that's okay.

 

Helen

[Chris Timson]

But now there are a few Swedish concertina players, at least one of whom is very strong.

I presume you mean Pontus Thuvesson? Strong is a good description, also big and hefty, I'd hate to get on his wrong side. Fortunately he is a really nice chap (I say fortunately, because I know he harbours designs on my Dipper baritone).

 

Chris

 

Edited to add PS: If you can get him to make a CD, we'll buy a copy. He is also a blazingly good fiddler!

Edited November 18, 2004 by Chris Timson

[David Sasso]

Hi all. I've been hanging around awhile in the background, and I thought this would be a good topic for my first post.

 

I'm 28 now and started playing Anglo concertina last year. I'm not quite ready to bring it to my local session yet, but I'm getting there. And I'm much happier now with my recently purchased Lachenal (from around the 1880s, I believe) than I was with my previous instrument -- a cheap, sluggish 20-button with a honking sound!

 

I agree with Steven's comment that here in the US, traditional music, and making music in general, is just not a part of mainstream culture. Music is seen as something to be consumed, only to be produced by those talented few who are "musically gifted." Part of what attracted me to Irish music after years of classical music training is the feeling that everyone is encouraged from a young age to play and sing along.

 

David

 

PS I have a full beard, too!

[Robin Madge]

If we are looking for the oldest starter on the concertina I think we should have to ask Brian Hayden how old his mother was when she started. I believe it was after her 90th birthday, but I like to think that I am too much of a gentleman to enquire further!

 

Robin Madge

[Ivan Viehoff]

It is true that in England folk music is highly "unfashionable", and therefore largely indulged in by people who don't care much for fashion, who are perhaps largely of a certain age. In contrast, in places like Ireland and Argentina folk music is more equally valued to what the locals might consider "international popular" music, perhaps in part because of the popularity of dancing to the traditional music. Paradoxically, young English people go travelling to places like Ireland and Argentina in part to experience the local folk music. Hence "world music", meaning everyone's folk music but our own, is more "fashionable".

 

But why should this have anything to do with concertinas? Did our Victorian forebears invent the concertina in order to play pre-Victorian folk music on it? I don't think so. If the concertina was later adopted by folk music players, then that was just a matter of convenience, like the adoption of the Spanish guitar, and the later adoption of more recent inventions (electric instruments, etc) by later folk "rock" and "fusion" players. We should not confuse "authentic" with "unamplified".

 

If we now think that the concertina is a quintessential folk music instrument, then I rather suspect that is because its use is greatly diminished in other forms of music.

 

Ivan (age 42)

[bill_mchale]

But why should this have anything to do with concertinas? Did our Victorian forebears invent the concertina in order to play pre-Victorian folk music on it? I don't think so. If the concertina was later adopted by folk music players, then that was just a matter of convenience, like the adoption of the Spanish guitar, and the later adoption of more recent inventions (electric instruments, etc) by later folk "rock" and "fusion" players. We should not confuse "authentic" with "unamplified".

Ivan, you know, it wouldn't be the first time that the Irish used something of English origin better than the English do; they have been doing the same with the English Language for more than a century (ducks to avoid inevitable flames )

 

--

Bill

[JimLucas]

(ducks to avoid inevitable flames )

"Inevitable" means "unavoidable".

So ducking strikes me as futile.

[bill_mchale]

It only means unavoidable in the sense that the event will happen regardless of any attempts to stop it. It doesn't mean that I can't avoid the effects

 

--

Bill

[Hilary]

Are all the blokes with facial hair attached to morris dance sides? It's all part of the image there.