Tunes You Won't Play?

[Alan Caffrey]

Hi there all!

just a quick question from someone (me) who is self taught and been at it for less than 5 years; I play an 'along the rows' style based on the G row that I got from the Frank Edgley tutor: I have no other concertina players in the area to compare notes with or to give me advise. This style has worked really well for me and I am able to play in our Little Rock session without too many problems but I wonder if other concertina players strive to play all tunes they come across? Tunes like Cooley's reel and Drowsy Maggie are arkward for me....are there tunes that are just not suitable for the concertina?

 

Thanks, Alan.

[stuart estell]

Tunes like Cooley's reel and Drowsy Maggie are arkward for me....are there tunes that are just not suitable for the concertina?

That's a really hard one to answer. My gut reaction - and one that isn't really very helpful - is to say that it's possible to play pretty much anything on the anglo. Obviously, you have to take consideration of the inherent limitations of the instrument, so a degree of re-arrangement might be necessary. And of course some things are a lot more difficult to do than others but I wouldn't want to write any tune/piece/song off as "unsuitable" - so sure as you do, someone will come along who has worked out a way to do it.

 

Assuming you've got an instrument with 30+ keys on it, though, if a passage in a tune is awkward one way, then (if it's in a common key - e.g. on a C/G instrument, C, G, F, or D) try and find some helpful alternative fingerings using duplicate buttons, e.g. the pull G and push A in the accidental row - you may find that these allow you to get around a particularly clumsy and awkward fingering that's causing you trouble and shed a whole new light on the tune you're looking at.

[Stephen Mills]

I have no other concertina players in the area to compare notes with or to give me advise.

 

Tunes like Cooley's reel and Drowsy Maggie are arkward for me....are there tunes that are just not suitable for the concertina?

Both tunes you named are in Em in the versions I'm familiar with. The various minor modes in E often present problems in maintaining bellows control when playing with an approach restricted to the G row, and even when playing across rows, in my experience. I recall coming across some tune that began with 14 consecutive pushed notes, using only the G row. Cross row playing will help and also open up a lot of things. See the Simon Wells tutor for a useful discussion of Em problems, including Drowsy Maggie.

 

A non-useful comment is that some of these tunes that are demanding on the Anglo are quite easy on the English. I find many tunes draw me to 1 or the other, while others lie equally well on either.

 

 

There was a c.netter who started the the most famous Irish session here in Houston long before I took up the concertina. I believe he moved to your area. I'll contact you offline if I can retrieve the information.

Edited November 14, 2004 by Stephen Mills

[JimLucas]

I play an 'along the rows' style based on the G row that I got from the Frank Edgley tutor... but ... Tunes like Cooley's reel and Drowsy Maggie are arkward for me....are there tunes that are just not suitable for the concertina?

Some tunes may always be difficult, but many can be made much easier by embracing rather than avoiding such concepts/techniques as cross-row playing, using different fingers at different times on the same button, using different buttons or even both push and pull for the same note at different points in the same tune, and even slightly altering the melody.

 

I'll try to show you what I mean with a few suggestions for Cooley's Reel:

 

.. 1st measure is EB BA B2 EB

== Do the E and B on the push, with different fingers (I find index for E and middle for B most natural, but you might prefer middle for E and ring for B )

== Do the next B on the pull (right hand), followed by the pull A (left hand, take your pick)

== The next B -- a longer note -- can be done either on push (LH) or pull (RH)

== The E and B at the end should be done like those at the beginning

 

.. 2nd measure is B2 AB dB AG

== Do the first two beats (B A-B ) all on the pull

== EITHER do the 3rd beat (d-B ) on pull (RH C-row) and the 4th beat (AG) on push (A in the 3rd row) OR do the 3rd beat on push (LH G-row) and the 4th beat on pull (using the 3rd-row G)

 

.. 3rd measure is (3F#ED ) AD BD AD

== On the 1st beat, omit the E, and play both the F# and D on pull

== Take both notes on each of the next three beats in a single direction; You can do them all on pull (B in RH), but you could also do them all on push (A on 3rd row, D on G row), or alternate the beats push-pull-push or pull-push-pull

 

I don't have time to go through the whole tune right now, but this should give you some idea of the possibilities... and of the new things you'll have to practice and get used to if you want to take advantage of these techniques. At least you shouldn't have to unlearn anything, just add to your existing repertoire of techniques.

 

Now here are a few alternative suggestions for what I already covered, above:

 

.. 1st measure

== Instead of playing the second B on pull, play it also on push, but throw a c# (RH) "cut" (grace note) in between the two B's [this assumes that if you have the c# in only one direction, it's the push]

== Then reverse the bellows for the A on the second half of that 2nd beat (you could try using the push A in the 3rd row, but I suspect you'll find that too awkward at this stage)

 

.. 2nd measure

== A fiddler would likely throw another c# between the initial B and the B that ended the 1st measure, but you're playing concertina, not fiddle; so forget the cut, but turn that quarter-note B into a (B-d-B ) triplet (pull, RH)

 

.. 3rd measure

== Instead of playing separate 8th-notes on the last three beats of the measure, play both notes together for the full quarter note of each beat , reversing direction for each beat to prevent a single, continuous D on the bottom

 

................ Have fun!

[Jim Besser]

>are there tunes that are just not suitable for the concertina

 

Suitable? Don't know about that, but there are many that are challenging. On my C/G, I have trouble with some fast A tunes with chromatic runs (the contra dance tune "Good for the Tongue" is a good example). But, as Jim L said, working out alternative approaches to the tune often overcomes those hurdles, and is good for the soul, as well. But it's certainly harder picking them up on the fly.

 

I agree that many Em tunes like Cooley's can be hard, but they're hardly unsuitable to the instrument; they just take more time to work out.

 

Of course, you could always get a capo....

Edited November 14, 2004 by Jim Besser

[JimLucas]

On my C/G,  I have trouble with some fast A tunes with chromatic runs (the contra dance tune "Good for the Tongue" is a good example).

Eh? After some googling I did find Good for the Tongue in A (most versions in Bb, it seems), but I haven't yet found a version with chromatic runs.

[Jim Besser]

> but I haven't yet found a version with chromatic runs

 

The hazards of quick replies.

Nonetheless, a fairly difficult tune, especially at dance speed.

[lildogturpy]

It's odd how the internet works - rather than google I used the abc tunefinder and the first 20 or so were in A with the first 5 notes a chromatic run Nice tune too

[JimLucas]

It's odd how the internet works - rather than google I used the abc tunefinder and the first 20 or so were in A with the first 5 notes a chromatic run  Nice tune too

'S odd, indeed. I keep forgetting about the ABC Tunefinder, in spite of the fact that it lets me see things in standard notation (which I find much easier to read than ABC), but I didn't find ABC Tunefinder among the first 100 entries in my googling. (I did find a Concertina.net post that included "...Ti would be no good for the tongue...." )

 

When I tried the Tunefinder just now, it returned 22 listings. But there were many repeats, so there were really only 7 different files. Even some of these were actually identical copies, with different index numbers. And these, too, contain duplicates.

 

But every version I found starts with a run that is diatonic, not chromatic.

 

There's a "simplified" (that's what it says) version in A, written in 3 different time signatures (one of them wrong, since the number of beats in each measure doesn't match the time signature), but otherwise identical, and no sources given. I'd only count it as one.

 

For the full tune in A, there are really only two versions, one recorded in two different time signatures, and the other apparently input twice by by the same person and taken from the same recording both times. These two versions differ only in one small place (two, if you count an internal repetition twice).

 

The single Bb version in the Tunefinder (taken from Cole's 1000 Fiddle Tunes) starts out nearly the same (after a pickup note missing from the other versions), but is quite different in the 3rd measure (repeated as the 7th), and the B part has even greater differences. There's also a somewhat different Bb version in The Old-Time Fiddler's Repertory, Volume 2. For what it's worth, I think the Bb versions are more interesting, though I think it could be fun switching between Bb and A.

 

One note that my googling turned up says there's a version (in Bb) in a tune book from 1842.

[bill_mchale]

Hi there all!

just a quick question from someone (me) who is self taught and been at it for less than 5 years; I play an 'along the rows' style based on the G row that I got from the Frank Edgley tutor: I have no other concertina players in the area to compare notes with or to give me advise. This style has worked really well for me and I am able to play in our Little Rock session without too many problems but I wonder if other concertina players strive to play all tunes they come across? Tunes like Cooley's reel and Drowsy Maggie are arkward for me....are there tunes that are just not suitable for the concertina?

 

Thanks, Alan.

Alan, If you don't mind some thoughts from a guy with even less experience than yours I would be happy to oblige... come to think of it I will be happy to oblige even if you do mind.. I am an opinionated cus

 

Anyway, I have been playing B/C button accordion for a bit over two years and concertina for about a year... (on a used Stagi and now a recently acquired used Marcus (with two other concertinas in the pipeline ... one of the advantages of being single; one can acquire toys when one wants). In general right now I am working on figuring out how to play tunes on the concertina that I already know on the B/C accordion. In general I tend to start out by trying to play them much like I would on a B/C accordion; mostly I play along the C row and then use the G row for the F# and the accidental row for the C#. However after a local player down here (who is also making one of the two concertinas I have on order ) showed me how to play the Kesh Jig mostly with two fingers I have been experimenting with relearning the tunes again playing across the rows. Some tunes seem to work really well when played mostly across the rows (like the Kesh) others seem to be better when played along the rows... particularly if I don't want to play it only on one side of the concertina (Jim Ward's Jig is an example here).

 

So basically, I guess I would recommend alternating your approach to tunes you are having difficulty with and perhaps some of these tunes will become possible... of course there will be a bit of a learning curve if you haven't learned the scales from any place but the G row.. but hey we do this for fun right

 

--

Bill

[Robin Madge]

Tunes I won't play?

Well how about "The march of the Siamese children"?

I know that John Kirkpatrick does it on 3 row Melodian but I can't even work out what key to start in!!

 

Robin Madge

[lildogturpy]

But every version I found starts with a run that is diatonic, not chromatic

 

Of course you're right Jim - didn't have my thinking cap on

Edited November 16, 2004 by lildogturpy

[spindizzy]

....are there tunes that are just not suitable for the concertina?

I started playing Spootiskerry (aka Fateful Head) at a session full of melodeons a while ago ... and practically solo'ed it - scary since I'd been expected everyone to race me to the end.

 

I play English concertina. One of the box players later said that the tune was a tricky one on button boxes .... maybe on anglos too then.

 

Chris

[bill_mchale]

I started playing Spootiskerry (aka Fateful Head) at a session full of melodeons a while ago ... and practically solo'ed it - scary since I'd been expected everyone to race me to the end.

 

I play English concertina. One of the box players later said that the tune was a tricky one on button boxes .... maybe on anglos too then.

 

Chris

I don't know that tune on either button box or concertina.. yet, but having a little experience on both now, i would say that a tune being tricky on a button box does not really give a good indication of whether a tune will be tricky on an Anglo. There are two things that will really make a tune challenging on a box; big jumps between notes (like more than an octave) and phrases that are written such that you have to change bellows directions quickly (Like a F#ED triplets). Both of these problems are allievated to a great degree on the Anglo; with two hands to cover the notes and most notes being in multiple locations means that usually one of the buttons will be convenient, also most of the notes occur in both directions which make it easier to find a way to play a phrase smoothly.

 

--

Bill

[spindizzy]

...Spootiskerry (aka Fateful Head) .

Chris

 

I don't know that tune on either button box or concertina.. yet,....

 

--

Bill

A Shetland Reel - maybe not so common in Irish sessions.

Lots of runs, going up in thirds

In case you all want to try and subvert your local Irish session by playing something else :-) here's a link to the dots and ABC. http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/857

(It's quite well known in the UK as the intro music to Mike Hardings Folk program on BBC radio 2)

[Brian Humphrey]

The addition of an inside row of accidentals and duplicate buttons (giving D on the draw and E on the push on a DG melodeon) has alleviated many of the problems with fingering, bellows changes, and missing notes that crop up for me on two-row boxes. This option may "level the playing field" somewhat when comparing melodeons to anglos.

[JimLucas]

...Spootiskerry (aka Fateful Head).

A Shetland Reel - maybe not so common in Irish sessions.

...here's a link to the dots and ABC. http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/857

Interesting. The dots for Spootiskerry (or Spoot O'Skerry) over there on TheSession.org are almost identical to those for The Fateful Head in Alistair Anderson's Concertina Workshop tutor. But there's something fishy -- other than cod and herring, -- because the notes on TheSession.org say, "This reel was composed by Shetland fiddler Samuel Ian Rothmar Burns (Ian Burns for short) in 1980," but Alistair's book is copyright 1974.

[JimLucas]

The addition of an inside row of accidentals and duplicate buttons (giving D on the draw and E on the push on a DG melodeon) has alleviated many of the problems with fingering, bellows changes, and missing notes that crop up for me on two-row boxes. This option may "level the playing field" somewhat when comparing melodeons to anglos.

I would expect that playing the tune on a 5th-tuned 2-row would be much different than on a ½-step-tuned 2-row box. I tried it on both a D/G melodeon and a 30-button anglo (actually 38, but I didn't use the extras). Not terribly easy on the melodeon, but probably not too hard for somebody who can actually play melodeon.

 

The "Fateful Head" version in Alistair Anderson's Concertina Workshop has no F#'s, so it can be played pretty comfortably entirely on the C row, except for playing the suggested c grace notes as d's. And while not necessary, I like to use the 3rd-row G for the penultimate note in both A and B parts, so the next-to-last beat is B-G (both on pull) and the last beat is G (push). I also found that a cross-row pattern which makes use of (among other things) the push low D and the 3rd-row reverse G/A button could be pretty fluid.