New Player, New Member, Old(Ish) Concertina...

[Roger Hare]

Hi, I'm a new player, and a new member, so my first post is full of questions!

 

After many years fannying about, I finally took the plunge and bought a concertina when I discovered that

one of my sailing buddies was a novice player too.

 

I've acquired Lachenal 20 button C/G Anglo concertina no 74693 (hence the user name!), vintage 1895.

This is a happy co-incidence - the restored sailing trawler I muck about on was also constructed in 1895!

 

However, I have a couple of questions:

 

1) The button layout on my instrument is the same as that shown in the Anglo fingering chart on the Digital

Concertina Archive. However, this differs slightly from that assumed in my tutor - I think that the F and F#

on the right hand side button 5 in the G row are transposed. The tutor states that "This [the layout] can vary

from make to make.". Fair enough, but how common are deviations from the 'standard' layout, and does it

matter?

 

2) My knowledge of musical theory is limited, but I know that the key of C consists of 'natural' notes, and that

the key of G contains only one 'accidental' (F#). But, three days after acquiring the instrument, I have worked

out a recognisable version of one of my favourite tunes 'The German Musicianer'. But this tune is in D (two

sharps) according to the score I have found on the internet. How is it possible to play a tune in a key for which

one does not have all the notes? I have seen a comment on a manufacturer's website which effectively states

that (I paraphrase...) 'we only manufacture C/G concertinas which cover the range of all traditional music and

is able to be played in the less common keys as well', so clearly it's possible, but how does this work?

 

Two solutions occur to me: (i) by a happy co-incidence, the tune does not contain either of the accidentals

which occur in the key of D; (ii) I am cunningly and unconsciously 'modifying' the tune as I learn it to replace

any accidentals with naturals, the result being 'good enough' for folk music. I am not entirely convinced by

either of these 'explanations'. So, I ask again, how does this work? Help!

 

Thank you.

 

Roger Hare.

Edited October 1, 2014 by lachenal74693

[Wolf Molkentin]

Welcome here Roger!

 

As there is only one accidental lacking from the Dmaj scale (C#) you might be lucky...

 

In case you aren't you'd have to transpose, most likely two semi-tones downwards to the key of Cmaj, which won't hardly be an issue apart from playing alongside other musicians...

 

Best wishes - Wolf

[maki]

Hello and welcome.

I'll let the musicology experts field your key questions.

 

My question to you is, do you really get to mess about in Brixham Trawlers?!?

Lucky you, those are gorgeous boats.

[Don Taylor]

If you worked it out yourself from memory then maybe you came up with a version in C. What is the last note in your melody? This is usually, but not always, the tonic or key note for the tune. In the case of the German Musicianer, the last note is the key note.

 

Just because something is scored in one key does not mean that it cannot be transposed and played in another key. Fiddle players want everything in D, wind players want a flat key, flutists like high C and so on.

 

It is really worth learning about ABC notation and one or more of the various editor/players. I like EasyABC. There are hndreds of thousands of tunes available in ABC notation, you can import one into your editor, play it to hear the melody and transpose it into a key that works for your instrument.

 

For example, google for "German Musicianer ABC". The first hit will give you abcnotation.com and the tune. Scroll down below the lyrics and you will find a box of not particularly readable text. That is the score in ABC notation. Cut and paste that into EasyABC and you should see the score inside EasyABC. You can transpose it and print a new score or save the results for later.

[Roger Hare]

>My question to you is, do you really get to mess about in Brixham Trawlers?!?

 

Yes. I am a 'volunteer' and shareholder in the newly restored Brixham sailing trawler 'Pilgrim' (http://pilgrimofbrixham.co.uk/).

Soon to be a director of the company I hope. Been sailing these boats for most of the last (almost) 20 years, and this year

I have managed to sail on the other three big local trawlers 'Leader', 'Provident' and 'Vigilance' as well as sailing on 'Pilgrim'.

A concertina is a handy thing to have on these boats, particularly at French trad boat festivals!

 

So that this reply isn't *entirely* off-topic, one of the tunes I hope to pick up in the near future is 'A Pilgrim's Progress'. I know

that Peter Bellamy sang this one one of his LPs but I haven't tracked that one down yet. I'm also actively trying to learn 'Le

31 du mois d'Aout', a fine old French song beloved of French yachtsmen because it's mildly offensive to the 'Rosbifs'!

 

Roger

[maki]

Envy!

 

Working sailboat and cocertinas go together like whiskey and more whiskey.

Lots of Peter Bellamy fans here too, you'll find multiple threads and more links.

[Don Taylor]

You mean "Pilgrim's Way"?

 

See about halfway down this page: http://whiskey-rebellion-morris.org/dances/bucknell/peoples_dance

 

This is Ian Robb's version, which I think is just wonderful. He plays a Tenor Treble EC, BTW.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G_ZDh6jVtk

 

As far as finding tunes is concerned, I mentioned Googling for ABC notation, but forgot about "JC's ABC Tune Finder":

http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/cgi/abc/tunefind

 

Don.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Don Taylor

[Roger Hare]

>If you worked it out yourself from memory then maybe you came up with a version in C. What is the last note in your melody? This

>is usually, but not always, the tonic or key note for the tune. In the case of the German Musicianer, the last note is the key note.

 

Correct! The last note in 'my version' is C - and of course, if I play it in G (ie: on the G row), the last note is G, so it all starts

to hang together...

Thank you for the information about ABC notation, I have tried it out and it seems to work (well, it would, wouldn't it). This is going

to be very valuable as I try to convert from one key to t'other (for singing).

 

>...maybe you came up with a version in C...

 

Yes. I now see that there is often more than one version of a tune - I just looked at 'She Moved Through the Fair' and there are

several versions of that one too. I'm feeling better already!

 

Thank you very much for all that useful information - should keep me quiet for a while!

 

>You mean "Pilgrim's Way"?

 

Yes, I do. I've recently been browsing "Pilgrim's Progress" by John Bunyan, hence the mental slip. And, Yup! I just looked at your

reference, and that's the one. I hadn't realised it was one of the Kipling settings.

 

Thanks again.

 

Roger.

Edited October 1, 2014 by lachenal74693

[Roger Hare]

I'm not sure of the etiquette on these fora yet, so rather than start a new thread, I'll tag this on to the tail-end of my first

post - after all, it's a novices question, and it (sort of) follows on from one of my earlier questions. Here goes:

 

The layout of the buttons on my 20 button C/G Anglo seems to differ slightly, both from the diagram of a 20 button

C/G Anglo layout at the Digital Concertina Archive (DCA), and from the diagram in Mick Bramich's 'Absolute Beginners'

Concertina' (ABC). I know that some layouts were different, but as I'm a complete novice, a little advice wouldn't

come amiss...

 

I *think* that the G-row on my instrument (going left-to-right, 5-4-3-2-1-|-1-2-3-4-5, push-pull) is:

 

G-D-D-F#-G-A-B-C-D-E-|G-F#-B-A-D-C-G-E-B-F#

 

which differs subtly from both the DCA layout on the internet, and from that in the ABC book (button 5 is different for

both left and right sides). This isn't a problem, in fact, this would mean that the notes I have in the key of G map precisely

onto the equivalent notes in the key of C (ie: on the C-row), so that (in crude terms) anything I can play in C, I can play in

G just by shifting rows, and vice-versa.

This is my interpretation of what I have on my instrument. Is this feasible? likely? totally impossible? a dream come true?

 

Thank you.

 

Roger Hare

Edited October 3, 2014 by lachenal74693

[maki]

I don't know much. But what worked for me was borrowing an electronic tuner.

Most people who play string instruments own one or more.

If you have deep pockets you can buy one at any music store, but you

wont use it much once you map your concertina.

[Ken_Coles]

Mick Bramich's ABC book has what the F# shown backwards from every concertina I've known - either a typo or his concertina is different from all of ours. You are interpreting your instrument correctly and in fact it is a conventional layout.

 

Ken

[Graham Collicutt]

You are interpreting your instrument correctly and in fact it is a conventional layout.

 

Ken

 

If it is a G/D.

[Roger Hare]

>Mick Bramich's ABC book has what the F# shown backwards from every concertina I've known - either a typo

>or his concertina is different from all of ours.

 

I did wonder if it was a typo...

 

>You are interpreting your instrument correctly and in fact it is a conventional layout.

 

Thank you for that. It's encouraging that a musical illiterate like wot I am can spot a problem and come up with

a more or less correct solution...

 

Roger Hare

[Wolf Molkentin]

>My question to you is, do you really get to mess about in Brixham Trawlers?!?

 

Yes. I am a 'volunteer' and shareholder in the newly restored Brixham sailing trawler 'Pilgrim' (http://pilgrimofbrixham.co.uk/).

Soon to be a director of the company I hope. Been sailing these boats for most of the last (almost) 20 years, and this year

I have managed to sail on the other three big local trawlers 'Leader', 'Provident' and 'Vigilance' as well as sailing on 'Pilgrim'.

A concertina is a handy thing to have on these boats, particularly at French trad boat festivals!

Roger

 

Must be great, lucky you!

Best wishes - Wolf

[Geoffrey Crabb]

Hi Roger,

The allocation of the notes on your instrument, as others have noted, is conventional but for the original German concertina.

The 20 button was basically a 10 button model with a second button row and reeds added. This second row, therefore, as you rightly say, map exactly the first row but in a different key.

 

This layout was copied at first by British makers because most known Tutors were written based on the much more available imported German instruments.

However, it was soon realised, both by users and British makers, that the instrument could be more versatile if some of the lower ‘triplicated’ notes of the left side were replaced with more useful ones. It is also become apparent that alternative changes to the last button of the right side G row do exist.

 

Hopefully, the attached chart shows the changes made to the ‘Anglosized’ version and includes some other information.

 

 

 

Note. Later instruments made in other continental countries generally followed the German layout.

 

Before the appearance of modern Tutors written as a result of the resurgence of interest in the concertina from the mid 1960’s, the only available Tutor, in print, for the Anglo was in the ‘First Step, How to Play’ series (Keith Prowse [EMI] Music Publishing Ltd).

Unfortunately, the content was still based on the German / Continental instruments so some Crabb Anglo’s, specifically made for beginners, were made to comply with this Tutor.

 

It must also be said, like early Tutors, modern ones may have been written based on the individual authors personal instrument which could be configured slightly different to an acquired instrument.

 

Geoffrey

 

Edited to replace attachment with amended version and alter text content accordingly.

 

Edited October 7, 2014 by Geoffrey Crabb

[wayman]

Here's a note (... haha!) to address more specifically one of your other early questions, Roger, that of "how does one play D tunes on a C/G concertina if there's no C# on the instrument"? On a 20 button instrument such as yours, if you want to play the tune actually in the key of D (perhaps because you're playing with someone else, say a fiddler, who wants to play it in D or a whistle player who only has a D whistle), you'll have to fudge it somehow.

 

One way is that you could probably get away with playing a different note in place of each C# (not likely a C natural, but perhaps an E or an A, since the C# note is likely to happen at a place in the tune where it would harmonize with a V-chord ... and if that last bit sounds completely mysterious to you, don't worry -- just try playing an E or an A there and see what it sounds like; in most cases, it will probably be a harmonious note and sound just fine!). It's just "folk-processing" the tune a little bit so that it fits your instrument, that's all, no harm done

 

Another is to find some favorite tunes in D that just don't have a C# at all. Tell your other musician friends you really love those tunes. Then it's no problem

 

To follow up on what Geoff Crabb just wrote, after the 20 button German concertina was Anglicized (changing a few of the buttons on the G row), a further modification made in England was the addition of more buttons ... to give the instrument other notes like C#. 30 buttons became a standard, but there were anglos that only added 2 or 4 buttons to those basic 20, and among the extra notes those gave C# was almost always among them so that tunes in D could more easily be played without fudging.

[Dowright]

Lachenal74693,

There is no coincidence here. Your Lachenal concertina is much older than your trawler.

No. 74693 was built in around 1883.

To give you some idea:

The numbering was above 100,000 by the late 1880s . I have a 26 April 1888 bill of sale for No. 1047399.

The numbering was above 140,000 by 1895. I have an Oct. 1895 bill of sale for No. 140871.

Hope it helps.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Dowright

[Geoffrey Crabb]

Hi folks,

I have amended my previous post (#15) and the attachment. Sorry for any inconvenience.

 

The old brain 'aint' what it used to be.

 

Geoffrey