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Crane Duet System Concertina


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the row of tonic bass notes on the left-hand stradella bass system for PA and CBA are the same kind of deal. the note to one side of a given tonic bass note is its fifth. the note to the other side of that same tonic is that same tonic's fourth. not pitch-wise. note-name-wise.

That's true as far as it goes, but as soon as you add such words as "up", "down", "above", or "below", you're talking about something different. I.e., the button below D (on the English) is G, which is "the fourth" of the D scale, but it's not "a fourth" below; it's a fifth below.

I think ceemonster is getting into difficulties here by not distinguishing between notes in the scale and chords in the harmonic structure.

I agree.

 

Specific notes in a specific octave can be a fifth apart, e.g the G above middle C is a fifth above middle C; and reciprocally, that C is a fourth below that G.

But please reread what you wrote above. You've just repeated his mistake.

 

The interval between G and the C below it is a fifth, whether you're going from C to G or from G to C. The interval between G and the C above it is a fourth, whether you're going from C to G or from G to C. Yes, in terms of chords C is the "fourth" of the G scale, but that name is derived from the process of counting up from the tonic* -- i.e., from G up to C, -- never down.

 

Noting that the first note is always counted as "one" (the "first"??), then counting from C up to G is a fifth (C=1, D=2, E=3, F=4, G=5), and counting from G down to C (same C and same G) is still a fifth (G=1, F=2, E=3, D=4, C=5). Counting from C down to G is a fourth (C=1, B=2, A=3, G=4), and it's also a fourth going the other direction, but in that case the C is above the G, where in the first example the C is below the G. Can't be both the same C and the same G.**

 

* The "tonic" is the do of do-re-mi-fa-sol-la-ti.

** Unless it's on an instrument designed by M.C. Escher. ;)

Edited only to fix some formatting.

Edited by JimLucas
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[[i think ceemonster is getting into difficulties here by not distinguishing between notes in the scale and chords in the harmonic structure.]]

 

we create our own narrative lines, which become neural pathways, according to what works, and it's working fine and dandy thus far. someone else will create a different web or matrix in their head to make it work for them.

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[[i think ceemonster is getting into difficulties here by not distinguishing between notes in the scale and chords in the harmonic structure.]]

 

we create our own narrative lines, which become neural pathways, according to what works, and it's working fine and dandy thus far. someone else will create a different web or matrix in their head to make it work for them.

 

If it works for you when you're alone, that's fine, but if you want to communicate with the rest of us, I recommend that you learn to use the terminology that's been the accepted standard for centuries.

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@Stradella: thinking about this particular system as "up a fifth, down a fourth" name-wise is completely reasonable, as Stradella system spans only a single octave and notes are arranged by a circle of fifths/fourths relations and not fifth interval - there are jumps that goes to lower pitch while still following "up a fifth" logic. It is the same logic in which Pythagorean tuning is made - each step of a scale is achieved by a fifth step up, but then "compressed" back into a single octave.

Edited by Łukasz Martynowicz
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