All Fingers & Thumbs...

[HansiRowe]

Hi Guys...

 

Well, I had my very first day trying out my little Lachenal yesterday… that is, 10 - 15 minutes here and there throughout the day, amounting to about 2 hours practice over-all. I know that 2 hours is a ridiculous amount of time but a couple of things have struck me right away that I need some guidance with...

 

I've seen here and there many things written about ergonomics and improvements to the concertina that have either already taken place, like pivoting thumb straps on the 'English' or padding on the hand rests of the 'Anglo', etc. and some things in the experimental stage, like stabilising knee straps… and as much as I am an absolute traditionalist and definitely of the 'old school' and hate to see changes to things that have remained just as they are for decades, I can't help feeling that the air valve would be so much easier to reach and operate if it wasn't a button, but rather, a small lever that could be either pressed down or lifted up, depending on one's style and size of thumb, etc.

 

Now, I know what you're thinking because I'm thinking it myself… after only a couple of hours playing I'm bound to find the air valve a bit awkward, and no doubt after a couple of weeks it will become just as easy to operate as all the other buttons but, given that everyone has differently shaped hands, and I myself have rather a large thumb joint, how much easier it could be if it was a lever… In my case, my thumb joint tends to hit the top of the hand rest, just above the loop that the strap passes through, and the part of my thumb that's in line with the air valve is the soft, fleshy, and much narrower part of my thumb to the side of my thumb nail. This means, that to fully press in the valve I have to more or less shift my whole hand to reach it and press it in fully. Is this because, as I have said, after only a couple of hours it wouldn't be expected that a total beginner would feel comfortable operating the valve, or have other players had problems in this area?

 

The other thing that I've read a lot about is the adjustment of the hand straps. I'm very comfortable with the left hand strap as it is, and I've been careful not to make the right strap too tight, which is, apparently, a mistake that many beginners make. I guess I have about an inch of space between my palm and the hand rest when I pull my hand away from the concertina and hard against the inside of the strap. It seems to be a good distance and comfortable for the movement of my fingers, etc. but, no matter how many times I rest and anchor the right side of the concertina on my knee and use my left hand to draw and push the bellows, the concertina starts to pull left when I draw out the bellows and I can see a bad habit about to form as I start to press down on the right hand strap with my thumb in an effort to take up the slack in the strap and keep the concertina in place on my knee and my right hand in contact with the hand rest and buttons. As I draw the bellows to the left, my right palm comes away from the hand rest and my fingers come away from the buttons, and my right thumb, which tends to press down instead of hovering near the air valve, starts to roll over to the right. I can see, and most certainly feel, that this is not good. The straps on my Lachenal are new but very soft, and quite narrow… I've read that some people prefer wider straps and that some prefer thicker, stiffer straps. Can I ask everyone's advice about this… I know that it's probably just personal taste but do think that a wider, thicker, stiffer strap would offer more support, or, is the whole problem just my bad technique that will improve with time and practice?

 

Having said all this… I LOVE the concertina!! I've only been practicing scales and trying out a few very simple tunes for a couple of hours but I just love it. Everything that I've mentioned above is just a beginner's observation and, if need be, I can play with a sore thumb or wandering concertina until I become comfortable and more proficient at holding and controlling it, etc. but I really don't want to establish a bad habit that will be difficult to get rid of later, so if anyone can remember back to their first attempts and any problems that they had, I would love to hear what they were and how they overcame them...

 

Many thanks in advance, cheers, John

[BlueJack]

Well, first off I kept running out of air and 'gasping' for more with the air button. Then I figured out how to use the air button with a note button to get more bellows movement. Next, I started playing across the rows and now, on a 30 button CG I hardly ever use the air button. When I can't avoid it I try to make it part of the melody. Gasp...

[maki]

I never used the air button for the first year.

[HansiRowe]

Thanks a lot Jack & Maki…

 

"I figured out how to use the air button with a note button"

 

It hadn't occurred to me that it's possible to combine a quick gasp of air at the same time as playing a note on the draw, I'll have to try that later!

 

"I never used the air button for the first year."

 

At the moment Maki I'm finding it difficult to press the air button just so that I can fill the bellows to start practicing scales! As mentioned above, while trying out a couple of very simple tunes and, because I am playing so slowly, I run out of air very quickly and then I have to more or less stop, twist my hand to press the button, and then fill the bellows and continue on… not very musical but I'm hoping that I will slowly progress with it. I'm thinking of trying out a little experiment that a good friend suggested… I'm going to make a temporary extension out of rubber or cork, like a tiny cap that will slip over the end of the air valve button to make it slightly longer, just to see if this solves the problem of my thumb joint hitting the cut out of the hand rest where the strap passes through the ring. It's just to see if this helps the situation, at least while I'm learning, as I don't really want to rely on this long-term… if it works!

 

Thanks again to both of you for your help… cheers, John

[MatthewVanitas]

Have you seen the old air-levers that some of the German-made Anglos used to use? Rarely done in the modern day, but used to have some popularity.

 

Here's an thread about such levers from a few months back: http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=16472

 

IIRC, the lever still goes to a button, just that the button is engaged by hitting anywhere along the lever. Or something like that.

 

Edited September 15, 2014 by MatthewVanitas

[maki]

Sorry for the un helpful reply.

I used to just press a handful of buttons to let air in.

 

What I learned quickly was that my hand rests were very low for my hands

which are large to extra large.

I read here of cutting cheap plastic foam pipe insulation to both pad the

hand rest and increase the hieght.

Eventually I contacted the maker of my concertina to have handrests

made to the hieght of 1 1/8 inch.

All my buttons seem to work much better now.

If you're handy you could do it yourself?

 

BTW, that lever idea is AWESOME!

[maki]

Thanks a lot Jack & Maki…

 

"I figured out how to use the air button with a note button"

 

It hadn't occurred to me that it's possible to combine a quick gasp of air at the same time as playing a note on the draw, I'll have to try that later!

 

[i

On a draw or push note, but doing it in musically pleasing fashion is not easy.

[MatthewVanitas]

 

BTW, that lever idea is AWESOME!

 

Mayhap we could track down the great-great-grandchild of its inventor so you can high-five him.

 

I don't know enough about angles to know whether one could retro-fit a lever to a 20b Lachenal's air button. Overall I'd imagine it'd be best to try the less-invasive options first, but it the lever turns out to be the best thing, I personally wouldn't see adding a lever as a desecration. It's not historically inappropriate, and a 20b is a perfectly good instrument but isn't necessarily a museum piece that must be inviolate. It's made to be played.

 

Somewhere in the same Construction/Repair subforum there was a thread iirc this year about a maker who had an elderly customer request just such a lever to avoid having to manipulate his thumb too much, and it worked out great.

 

But as noted, there are other simple fixes to try first, especially in the earliest phase of learning the instrument. When I first got my Elise, I was baffled by how loose the handstraps were and was going to get an Afghan leatherworker to add several more notches to cinch the hands down, but after reading up more on it I realized that people preferred slightly loose Duet straps, and I learned the technique of "cupping" my hands to take up slack, so then I could let out more slack when I had to reach further. So some of these things are worth feeling out to see if they're truly unfit for you, or just need getting used to.

[Alan Day]

I thought I would just go through hand strap tightness.It is a personal thing but most use this option.

Firstly as a beginner I state the obvious, but as I have seen other players new to concertinas do it..Only the four fingers of your hand go under the strap,your thumb does not.

The strap should not be tight ,but if you arch the back of the hand it should hold the concertina tight.(for me a gap of about 10mm from hand rest to flat of hand) One corner of the hexagonal fits into your palm and by arching the back of your hand it is then fixed into position.This should in theory give you just sufficient movement to move your hand to get to all the buttons.It has been mentioned that air button control is one of the most awkward to master,very lightly touching the air button whilst playing and not changing the note to the listener takes a lot of practice .Alternating buttons in the opposite direction are worth investigating.Above all it is all about making things easy for you.Twenty minute burst of practice with half hour intervals are my way of practising.Two hours at one hit and my mind cannot cope with it.

Al

[d.elliott]

John,

 

I have seen Lachenals fitted with air release levers like the one shown in the picture but flatter like a thumb rest board, There was also an earlier thread on this topic a couple of months ago in the repair forum.

 

I have made an fitted several such arrangements now, to concertinas owned by people with hand/ thumb articulation issues, they work well. You don't have to struggle, it is an easy mod to do, any competent cabinet maker could do it for you, or you could contact one of your home grown 'teena makers/ repairers. If they want details ask them to contact me.

 

Dave E

[Mikefule]

On the whole, whatever the activity, I'd say when you're just starting out is the wrong time to be thinking of new improvements to the equipment. What doesn't make sense to a beginner may make perfect sense a year later.

 

It took me about a year to start incorporating the air button in my playing. I still struggle on certain tunes. What I tend to do is operate the air button with the outside edge of my thumb and time it with a note on the same hand.

 

Lots of small taps of the air button is far better than a few long and deep gasps.

Edited September 15, 2014 by Mikefule

[HansiRowe]

Thanks so much everyone for the information about the air-valve, and especially the info about those old concertinas with the levers. I didn't realise that these even existed. I had imagined a lever that could be pressed down or pulled down, exactly like the one that Robin's using when playing 'Bending the Ferret' in this video clip… http://www.youtube.c...h?v=PHoZOyvi3qg as apposed to a lever that still needs a sideways push to operate, although even a sideways push somewhere along such a long lever would still be a great solution.

 

I know what you mean Mike about it being too early to start thinking about improvements to the concertina, but I really do feel that I am going to have an issue with the air-valve, simply because my thumb joint is wide and hits the hand rest before the side of my thumb by the nail can reach the button, preventing me from pressing the button (which, by the way, needs quite a bit of pressure to push in, the spring feels quite strong and the button needs to be pushed almost all the way in to open the valve) unless I move my entire hand to compensate. I can't see that this will change, even with experience.

 

I'm definitely sliding my hand in under the strap with my thumb on top Alan, and I have my hand in as far as it will go, in fact the strap is almost cutting in between thumb and forefinger. I have now tightened the strap so that I have a gap of about a quarter of an inch to half an inch. I have been guilty however, of not holding my fingers so that the tips are a vertical extension of the buttons… my finger tips have been more at a 45 degree angle to the buttons, so I'm obviously not arching the back of my hand enough to take up the slack, so that's something for me to practice straight away.

 

"One corner of the hexagonal fits into your palm…" Unfortunately, I have fairly small hands so the corner of the hexagonal is not near my palm but, I think the skill of anchoring the concertina into a stable position on my knee/leg will come with practice, and now that I have made the strap a bit shorter it feels better already.

 

Thanks again for all the advice, this has given me plenty to think about and some positional adjustments to try out… I really appreciate your help, cheers, John