ben Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 (edited) I have listed an octagonal 40 button Wheatstone C/G on ebay. Here is the listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wheatstone-C-G-40-Button-Anglo-concertina-/251638522719? I prefer selling off ebay. If a member of this forum is interested in this concertina and buys it then a suitable donation will be made to C.net. Edited September 9, 2014 by Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notemaker Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Is this for real? I see the same photos on Ebay for a long time ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Jowaisas Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 Notemaker, Ben is for real. He has South African connections and has "mined" the Wheatstones that the Boer's favored for concertina music for some time. He is also a nice gentleman. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben Posted August 31, 2014 Author Share Posted August 31, 2014 (edited) Thank you, Greg. I appreciate your kind words. Edited September 3, 2014 by Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notemaker Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Thank you, Greg. I appreciate your kind words. Notemaker, please take note: One can quickly determine whether the seller and the instrument is real and genuine by doing a few simple things including....a) writing to the seller...ask questions; 2) take stock of the instrument's serial numbers.....the serial number will let you know in which year the instrument was manufactured; and 3) check the seller's ebay's rating and Facebook feedback system. Each seller has his or her own style of marketing or photographing their instrument.....and using the own unique vocabulary in presenting an instrument. 1950's Wheatstone anglo concertinas look like.....1950's style concertinas! 1930 to 1937 Wheatstone Linotas look like.....1930-1937 WHeatstone Linotas......1975 to 2014 Wheatstone anglo concertinas look different from those of 1950's....because they are made by Steve Dickinson...a living legend. There are also only a few ways to twist, turn and squeeze a concertina for a photo. Sometimes if you ask nicely..the seller can provide you with a short video clip or sound bite of the concertina being played. Postings on ebay that are fraudulent include a "too good to be true" sale.....and encourage prospective buyers to pay through Western Union... Scammers do not usually like to respond to questions. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. However I do not think, today, with fallling attendance at sessions, and the collapse of audience interest in Celtic music, that prices are as high as you publsh. In fact I simply do not believe that anybody in their right mind would part with several thousand dollars for something old and in the bad condition shown. In additiion if I were to be parting with that much money I would buy a new item which is not full of old dust and the dieseases which thrive in it. Indeed the flood sale of high end models here, Jefferies etc, from the heart of the Celtic boom in Concetina playing, Co Clare ireland by some heavy weight sessionistas, leads me to conclude that the shakers and movers in this game are jumping ship before the storm. I wager in a few years you will not be able to give away any of the old stuff except to antique collectors. Buying new or not at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des tracey Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Notemaker, I have no affiliation with Ben, the seller of the concertinas in question, however, I do know that he has been dealing in these Wheatstone concertinas from South Africa for some time. I also know that he has a fine reputation to uphold. I believe that your characterisation of the condition of the instruments shown is at the very least 'lazy' and at worst insulting. While I don't play a 20th century Wheatstone concertina, I do know that they can be very fine instruments, equal to, in many cases newly made concertinas. As for them harbouring diseases, I would suggest that the pubs in which many sessions are held would be more likely to present a danger to one's health than the instruments. Many people in their right minds with large sums of money to spend have parted with same in exchange for vintage instruments on the basis that they preferred the instrument in question as opposed to ordering a new one and waiting on the prevailing list. It is true that a lot of old instruments require attention, but this can be factored into the price and there is very little in a concertina, with the possible exception of the reeds that cannot be improved upon, when required by a competent concertina repairman. As for the Irish exponents of the little box favouring the newly made instruments, this may be a factor of 'use and abuse. By this I mean that real quality vintage instruments are a finite resource, while new instruments continue to be made and can be ordered. Therefore, players 'heavy weight sessionistas' as you describe them may be loathe to expose their treasured vintage instruments to the ravages of the pub scene, preferring to use their replaceable modern instruments. However, I do know some of these people and I believe that there still exists a great respect and admiration among them for quality vintage instruments, which when the chance presents results in the same heavyweights snapping them up. Your sentiments are reminiscent of Sean Garvey's (of All About Accordions fame - an Irish based concertina/accordion business) recent comments in the publication Irish Music Magazine suggesting that these (vintage concertinas) should be left in the English Auction houses. Your attitude and that of Mr Garvey fails to take into account that vintage concertinas were quite expensive instruments when made and were made, in most cases to the highest standards by craftsmen skilled at their professions using materials of the highest qualities to cater for a market that was prepared to pay handsomely for a top-quality instrument. Are we to now ignore these facts and assign all vintage instruments to the shelves of collectors to be viewed as historical oddities? In my case I will continue to play my 19th century Jeffries anglo, having disposed of a recently acquired top-quality newly made concertina. The reason? I prefer my old concertina, I prefer the tone, the action and the experience of playing it and I don't see myself parting with it despite having access to new instruments. Finally, if we were to apply your attitude to all vintage instruments, there would be a few very nervous Stradavari owners out there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_freereeder Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Notemaker, It's clear from your comments that you don't really know an awful lot about anglo concertinas. 1. Ben's prices are pretty much spot on for those particular instruments. They are comparable with what you'd have to pay here in the UK; if anything the vintage 30-key Wheatstone is probably a bit undervalued. 2. Cannot understand why you think the concertinas are in bad condition. They look very good indeed to me; Ben takes care of his instruments and does not sell rubbish. 3. With normal reasonable care and attention, and occasional routine maintenance, there is no reason why these concertinas should not last for many decades more. Old concertinas of this calibre - especially the 1930s Linota - are likely to be every bit as good (if not better) than many new instruments being made today. The quality of the steel used in the reeds in those instruments is very, very good indeed and virtually impossible to obtain these days. 4. These concertinas are available now; you don't have to go on a maker's waiting list for years (and more years in some cases). If you want to hang around that long for a new instrument, by all means do so. 5. Your comment about diseases thriving in old instruments is utterly comical and beyond belief. At best, your comments are ill-informed, at worst, they are downright insulting to Ben and all the fine players, collectors, restorers and dealers on this forum and in the general concertina playing world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqzbxr Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 Notemaker, Not quite sure what your purpose is in hijacking Ben's listing here, but you're way out of line. If you don't want to buy a vintage concertina, then don't. But if your purpose is to publicly shame Ben into dropping his price through spurious and ignorant accusations, then you are even more out of line. Personally, I don't give much credence on current trends in Irish concertina playing (such as they are) to someone who has made their ignorance of said subject, as well as their ignorance of concertinas in general so painfully clear by their foolish and poorly-considered statements. I do take exception to your groundless accusations against Ben, which undoubtedly are based in the same ignorance and brashness. Don't come in here and start bashing established and respected members unless you have real cause to do so. And if you do, you'd better have a damn good argument and documented proofs before doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Taylor Posted September 2, 2014 Share Posted September 2, 2014 I have been to Ben's house and I have seen many of his very fine concertinas. If he has something to sell that is not in the best condition then he pays a professional restorer to fix it before he advertises it for sale. Ben is a very fine gentleman and a very, very fair dealer. In fact, I don't really understand how he makes any money at all on his trades. Don. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 In fact I simply do not believe that anybody in their right mind would part with several thousand dollars for something old and in the bad condition shown. .. I wager in a few years you will not be able to give away any of the old stuff except to antique collectors. This is one of the oddest posts I've ever been reading - there's absolutely no indication of the advertised instrument being in any poor condition, and many of us - including myself - are happy owners (or trustees) of all sorts of vintage instruments. I'm very glad they survived, and will be surving furthermore which happens through sellings like this one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notemaker Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 @Market pumpers. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wheatstone-C-G-40-Button-Anglo-concertina-/251638522719?%C2%A0 Item relisted several times and never a bid. Seriously gentlemen your sore spot is the collapse of the trade in 'this' old stuff! Old cars and such go to scrap yards, hint hint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) @Market pumpers. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wheatstone-C-G-40-Button-Anglo-concertina-/251638522719? Item relisted several times and never a bid. Seriously gentlemen your sore spot is the collapse of the trade in 'this' old stuff! Old cars and such go to scrap yards, hint hint. It appears that particular instrument didn't sell this time around, but my understanding is that Ben has many satisfied customers -- concertina.net members among them -- who have taken delivery of the concertinas he sells. That many of these concertinas are nearly identical is no surprise, as Wheatstone produced batches of identical models during that period, largely -- it seems -- for export to South Africa, which we understand is Ben's source. E.g., the one in the auction you linked to is serial #59167. On the page where that instrument appears in the Wheatstone ledgers, that's one of 20 identically described instruments (two batches of 10 each )... out of a total of only 26 instruments on that page. There are many more on nearby pages, and I'm not going to waste my time trying to count them all, which likely number in the hundreds and differ only in their serial numbers. So if you have links to Ben's earlier auctions, please check the serial numbers of the instruments he has auctioned. If they are indeed all the same (which I would expect you to prove by providing the links), then we might have to reconsider our opinions of Ben's character (first giving him an opportunity to provide contrary evidence). But at the moment, I'm more suspicious of your motives than of Ben's. Edited to add the link to the page in the Wheatstone ledgers. Edited September 15, 2014 by JimLucas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken_Coles Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Discussion of the current market deserves its own thread. This one is for a specific sale. Thanks everyone. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqzbxr Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 @Market pumpers. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wheatstone-C-G-40-Button-Anglo-concertina-/251638522719?%C2%A0 Item relisted several times and never a bid. Seriously gentlemen your sore spot is the collapse of the trade in 'this' old stuff! Old cars and such go to scrap yards, hint hint. So... did you join this forum just to troll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 DFTT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken_Coles Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Thread closed. Ben, if you need to add to/modify your post let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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