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marien

Crabb Duet - Is It A Maccann?

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This concertina was sold on ebay lately, it's a crabb, it is serial number 14060. It's not mine but it made me curious, the positions of the buttons differs from the usual shape MacCann layout.

Does anyone have an idea what kind of duet this is? Is it something else or is it just MacCann?

Thanks in advance,

Marien

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post-1783-0-43138000-1405532828_thumb.jpg

Edited by marien

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Marian,

Thank you for bringing this, at least, to my attention.

 

I was aware that my father had designed (invented ???) and made a type of 6 column Duet which originally was described as 'Duet Chromatic' (See entry from the number record)

 

 

 

To fall in line with 35 & 42 button 'Solo' Treble instruments that he also devised (like an English but with only 3 columns each side), the name 'Victor' was adopted for these new models i.e. 'Victor Duet' & 'Victor Solo'.

 

From the records it appears that only one example of the 'Victor Duet' (No 14060) was made and we now know, from this report, that it has survived.

 

I can find no entries for 'Victor Solo' 35 or 42 button instruments although detailed pattern plans for them that exist suggest at least one of each was made. I know that I should have asked dad when he was alive but 33 years too late now. Perhaps one of these will appear.

 

Unfortunately, no plans seem to exist for the Duet so I have no knowledge of the note to button allocation. Hopefully, whoever bought it will furnish us with that information.

 

 

Incidentally the name 'Victor' was also the model of car dad had at the time, a 'Vauxhall Victor'.

At least the subject Duet has survived about 53 years longer than that car.

 

Geoffrey

Edited by Geoffrey Crabb

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1957 picture of Dad, the shop and rear of Vauxhall Victor, brand new then.

 

 

 

Geoffrey

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I have now been furnished with the note allocation for the instrument thanks to the present owner.

 

I attach the layout as described.

 

Obviously, I would like to accept my fathers claim as to originality of the layout but, as has occurred with other 'new' systems that have emerged, it would be foolhardy to endorse such a claim at this time.

 

Geoffrey

 

 

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The "logic" appears to be quite appealing, doesn't it? 6+6 (or 3+3+3+3) definitely make sense!

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Thanks for the chart Geoff.

 

Compared to a MacCann. Crane or jeffries layout one can see that the logical system is free from the concept of diatonic scales.

Unbelievable that the patent for the "Victor" was not granted in 1958 because it was too much similar to other duet concertina layouts.

 

Nevertheless, quite a challenge to play this system... Looks like a B-griff system split up into 2 groups of three buttons and the second group is Always in reversed order, which makes it complicated to my idea...

 

Marien

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Adding my own thanks to Geoff for the chart.

I would welcome an opportunity to experiment with this layout.

It's a truly uniform "vertical" layout reminiscent of the early Wheatstone Double and the late Wheatstone Chidley layouts.

(As compared to Stark or Meisel or Wicki which I label "horizontal" in orientation.)

However, while appearing compact, it doesn't seem particularly efficient or isomorphic.

My own first impression suggests that everything could be a bit of a stretch except G, Gm, E, Em, and Dm.

And though there is uniformity in the layout, the need to learn many multiple and varied patterns for the different scales/key signatures - like a piano keyboard - remains a necessity. I haven't charted them, but I think I see at least five on a glance.

 

Marien,

I don't see the similarities with the CBA system except for the sequence of the minor thirds which are "separated" rather than adjacent.

The adjacent diagonals have no whole tones in either direction, and the semi-tones are in both diagonal directions (rather than one) due to the "split."

Am I missing something?

 

Be Well,

Dan

Edited by danersen

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And though there is uniformity in the layout, the need to learn many multiple and varied patterns for the different scales/key signatures - like a piano keyboard - remains a necessity. I haven't charted them, but I think I see at least five on a glance.

 

I agree, the player would have to rely on the strict uniformity, with no doubt as to the location of any given note from first sight on...

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Hello Dan,

 

Maybe you missed the words I did not write, but I think you filled the gap completely, and my thoughts are quite in the same direction.

 

A small addition - for what it's worth.

 

As you say - the victor system is a logical one but may be difficult to play.

What I wrote earlier was based on some thoughts. The "split" of 3 buttons going up and 3 buttons going down on the same row is comprehensible. But my hand does not have a similar split, I usually use no more than three fingers on one hand, the pinky comes in occasionally. To my idea, the difficulty is not the range (for example pressing Eb and F# at the same time), but the main difficulty seems to be to learn to play all scales on the instrument - all chords have a different pattern of buttons to press - I think that is a clear disadvantage in comparance to C-, B-griff or Hayden duets.

 

A great challenge though to play this system...

 

Greetings

Marien

 

.

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I was looking through some old papers and came across the details of this Crabb Victor Duet' (No 14060). I unsuccessfully bid for it in 2014 on eBay (as the highest bidder but one!). I am still interested in it an as unusual and unique duet.

Does anyone know of its whereabouts and whether it might be for sale?

Thanks

Peter

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