Whatever Happened To Duet International ?

[Irene S.]

Re the matter of sharing files online, or digitising cassette tapes ... fine as far as it goes. However, I would still like to see an actual CD - stuff online is OK up to a point, but it's not generally the way that I choose to listen to music personally.

There are so many issues to be considered with putting stuff online - copyright, individual rights etc etc ... and of course the quality of such. Shouldn't be posting stuff up by people who have passed on, or indeed recordings that are not your own, either, as copyright laws persist for quite a number of years after recordings are made (and vary from one country to another). People already do put stuff online here, and there have been duet recordings from the likes of Dirge (David Gardiner) with his classical recordings in the past, for instance. Is there really any need to create a special Duet page? And if so, why not Anglo, or English as well ? I think that a special page may be carrying things a little too far in a bit of a knee jerk reaction ? ?

Personally I still wonder if there is scope to arrange some crowdfunding to get a recording issued , but perhaps with a little less in the way of booklet etc etc and such overhead costs (for instance the additional information could be placed on a specific website with link details provided with the CD - something which was suggested to me about the idea of producing a CD on my research topic) . And of course in the years that have passed since the original recordings were submitted other duet players like Hazel Askew, or Matt Quinn have come onto the scene, so scope exists for newer recordings. And I am aware of other duet players such as Rob Neal for instance .

These are not intended as any specific (or even, indeed, cogent ) thoughts - just musings. ?

Edited May 14, 2019 by Irene S.

[Dee746]

Irene - All great points.

 

And updating the list with new duet players  who have joined the ranks since the initial work on the Duet International CD began is a wonderful idea.

 

Re an Online page of recordings or links to recordings vs a CD - If a Duet CD could be created, obviously, that would be wonderful.  And clearly no recordings should ever be placed on line, or copied from cassettes or other media to be posted online or put into a CD without the legal written permission of the performer. Songs recent enough to still be under copyright regardless of the performer are also an issue.  But all this applies to any CD that would be produced, not just online distribution or posting.  Given his experience in creating the  wonderful Anglo and English International CD collections, my guess is that Alan is familiar with these issues. 

 

My thoughts concerning why the need for a Duet page but not an Anglo or EC page are  - There are two wonderful CD collections people can buy - Anglo International and English International to listen to wonderful examples showcasing the diversity of these two types of concertinas and the skills of those who play them.  So from my perspective, the need for a page for Anglo and English concertinas is not as acute as the need for a Duet Recordings Page.  There is no Duet International CD, and based on the information Alan has provided us, the Duet International CD will not be happening.  Also, there are many wonderful individually recorded CDs by Anglo and EC players.  There are not so many single artist duet player CDs on the market.   So if it is not possible to make a Duet CD, a Duet Recordings Page as described by Alan would help to fill this void, and would certainly be better than nothing at all.

 

My two cents (or ~2.6 pence? - haven't checked today's exchange rate), for what it's worth...

 

 

 

 

Edited May 14, 2019 by Dee746

[Alan Day]

Thanks for your thoughts and lines Irene. i mentioned new artists coming forward on the duet and Rob Neal and Matt Quinn were names I had in mind  and Hazel Askew is a good suggestion and possibly Mike Acott as another.It is such suggestions that I thought you would all help me with. I have not the time to spend hours working on a Duet project, but with all your help we can put this together.I understand your thoughts Irene for a CD, but new artists suggestions give this project depth.I am expecting a recording from you when you are ready. This has no time limit. A CD needs decision making, finance and full agreement .Would you ever get it with a large consortium ? Your thoughts are welcome.

Thank you for your comments Dee ,I hope we finish up with something which will be useful. I have certainly learnt a lot from all the recordings of all systems I have put together. Thanks Irene for your continuing enthusiasm for this project.

Al

[JimR]

Is a CD required? An mp3 album would still need releases, etc, but the costs of CD creation could be avoided.

Edited May 15, 2019 by JimR

[Alan Day]

The Album could be based on the most popular tracks.

 

[RAc]

17 hours ago, Irene S. said:

Hmm ... Al, I think you had better get your pen and paper ready to write some lines out for the teacher (private joke)

Quite a few mis-spellings in that list!

For Ralphie Jordon, read Ralphie (or rather Ralph) Jordan
For Silvia Needham, read Sylvia Needham
Re Gilbert Carriere, sadly I think his website is no longer to be found (I seem to remember listening to some of those online quite a few years ago, then looking for them, and finding them gone! ? )
Gavin and Julie are Gavin and Julie Atkin
For Mike Hibbert - read Mike Hebbert

As for the rest, for all I know they are OK ?  ?

 

I believe David Bernert should be David Barnert?

[maccannic]

As promised, here's a couple of links to myself playing my previous concertina (a 64-button Lachenal maccann).

 

http://www.nonce.dk/4C.net/Maccannic/TG2-MP3-003 Maruxa.mp3

http://www.nonce.dk/4C.net/Maccannic/TG2-MP3-001 Argeers,Christina.mp3

 

I hope they still work.  I'm not claiming they're great, but they give an idea of what can be done (I'd been playing about 10 years when they were done, but I didn't used to practice much).  (I still don't).

[David Barnert]

6 hours ago, RAc said:

I believe David Bernert should be David Barnert?

 

Hah! I missed that one.

 

On 5/14/2019 at 8:28 AM, Alan Day said:

Thanks David nice to be back..

How do you feel about a page here dedicated to Duet playing (including some of yours) ?  It would be an open recording page with no supervision except for the usual by ken, It would be more comprehensive than Duet Int as unlimited recordings could be posted by an artist without any individual track selection. Your views and others would be appreciated.

 

I have no strong opinion. Everyone knows what a CD is, what to expect from one, the role it plays in one’s life, what it means to be on one. The release of “Duet International” would have been nice, but I accept the likelihood that it will not happen.

 

A collection of recordings on the web is a whole other thing. Sure, it makes recordings available to the general public (and I have no objection to my recordings being a part of it) but not being a solid piece of plastic means different people will listen to it, for different reasons, under different circumstances. Having grown up in the pre-internet era (in fact, even pre-CD), I don’t quite know what to expect of such a proposition.

 

8 minutes ago, maccannic said:

I hope they still work.

 

They work. I particularly like the 2nd one, the Playford tunes.

[Dee746]

5 minutes ago, maccannic said:

As promised, here's a couple of links to myself playing my previous concertina (a 64-button Lachenal maccann).

 

http://www.nonce.dk/4C.net/Maccannic/TG2-MP3-003 Maruxa.mp3

http://www.nonce.dk/4C.net/Maccannic/TG2-MP3-001 Argeers,Christina.mp3

 

I hope they still work.  I'm not claiming they're great, but they give an idea of what can be done (I'd been playing about 10 years when they were done, but I didn't used to practice much).  (I still don't).

They still work. They're great, and they are exactly the sort of thing I'm looking for.  My budget only allowed for a 46 button Lachenal maccann, and I do know the smaller number of buttons  comes with some limitations.  But I have a decent music theory background, so it will hopefully help me with arranging around the lack of extra buttons once I master the button layout.  If not, when  I gain some proficiency on the one I just bought, I will trade up.  OK, I'm 65, so realistically, that may never happen...But a gal can dream Thanks for taking the time to find and post these!  

[Wolf Molkentin]

1 minute ago, Dee746 said:

They still work. They're great

 

I gladly repeat myself proclaiming that I love the second track, as it has the spirit...!

[David Barnert]

21 minutes ago, Dee746 said:

But I have a decent music theory background, so...

 

Ahh. It’s so nice to hear someone else say that around here. I studied music theory pretty seriously in college (6 semesters, with all the music majors), although I was not a music major. But so many concertina players tend to think music theory is like a strait-jacket, an unnecessary hindrance to free playing. I find that what music theory has taught me makes playing the concertina much more satisfying.

 

21 minutes ago, Dee746 said:

I'm 65

 

Close...

Edited May 15, 2019 by David Barnert

[Dee746]

Just now, David Barnert said:

 

Ahh. It’s so nice to hear someone else say that around here. I studied music theory pretty seriously in college (6 semesters, with all the music majors), although I was not a music major. But so many concertina players tend to think music theory is like a strait-jacket, an unnecessary hindrance to free playing.

1 minute ago, David Barnert said:

 

Ahh. It’s so nice to hear someone else say that around here. I studied music theory pretty seriously in college (6 semesters, with all the music majors), although I was not a music major. But so many concertina players tend to think music theory is like a strait-jacket, an unnecessary hindrance to free playing.

 

Close...

2 minutes ago, David Barnert said:

 

Ahh. It’s so nice to hear someone else say that around here. I studied music theory pretty seriously in college (6 semesters, with all the music majors), although I was not a music major. But so many concertina players tend to think music theory is like a strait-jacket, an unnecessary hindrance to free playing.

 

 

Close...

 I am so glad my mother insisted we all take those 2 years of piano lessons...She didn't mean it.  She wanted more.  In my case, 6 years...But that meant I could sight read vocal parts. I taught myself guitar (back when you exchanged what you learned with friends, and lifted arrangements off albums because there was no internet. By the time I learned the ukulele, there were all those lovely internet teaching videos.  Must say, it was appreciated, albeit less personal.  I did not go into music as a profession.  But that early piano and vocal training that led to guitar meant that I could pay my college tuition bills by singing weddings, working as the children's entertainer for the town recreation  department during the summers, and teaching guitar lessons.  It sure beat flipping hamburgers at MacDonald's, and usually paid better too.  

Close...

24 minutes ago, David Barnert said:

 

 RE your comments about CDs -  It's interesting.  My CDs are still my favorite listening medium,  but youtube and internet streaming are now a regular part of my listening experience.  However, my 20 and 30 something nephews and nieces, all of whom play musical instruments, one of whom was a theater major and now is a full time actor in the actor's union, all get a glazed look on their face and change the subject when I ask if they'd like a CD for a Christmas gift (I've learned to buy itunes credit cards instead).  They use their smartphones to listen to music.  They listen to pandora on their laptops.  They  download mp3 recordings off the internet or purchase them on Amazon or itunes and make permanent playlists the length of the average CD, sometimes stored on their phones, or a flash drive or microdisk they can plug into their mp3 player or boom box or smart phone with speakers for parties.  Technology moves on!  We used to listen to the radio, then albums, then CDs...OK, I admit it I still own some beta videos and a player...

[Irene S.]

3 hours ago, Dee746 said:

 RE your comments about CDs -  It's interesting.  My CDs are still my favorite listening medium,  but youtube and internet streaming are now a regular part of my listening experience.  However, my 20 and 30 something nephews and nieces, all of whom play musical instruments, one of whom was a theater major and now is a full time actor in the actor's union, all get a glazed look on their face and change the subject when I ask if they'd like a CD for a Christmas gift (I've learned to buy itunes credit cards instead).  They use their smartphones to listen to music.  They listen to pandora on their laptops.  They  download mp3 recordings off the internet or purchase them on Amazon or itunes and make permanent playlists the length of the average CD, sometimes stored on their phones, or a flash drive or microdisk they can plug into their mp3 player or boom box or smart phone with speakers for parties.  Technology moves on!  We used to listen to the radio, then albums, then CDs...OK, I admit it I still own some beta videos and a player...

I have to admit that I have no idea what pandora is! I may have to go away and look it up. As to mp3s, having fallen into friendship and musical partnership with an experienced "audio butler" who professed to have good ears, I was taught that CD recordings were preferable as they avoided the inevitable compression that was a part of the mp3 process (and I immediately add that I have never done any comparison to enable me to judge the veracity or otherwise of that view).

Personally I prefer the physical feel of a CD, the sleeve notes which I can contemplate while listening etc. Interestingly enough, of course, vinyl has now started to become popular again, so even the younger generation are starting to turn their backs on the digital formats, it would seem.

Reverting to your comments on music theory, I can't pretend to be fully educated in that area, but certainly was studying theory up until mid teens, thence turning to choral singing, and have a strong background in sight reading to a high standard. I have no doubt that my wide experience of choral singing at a high level and exposure to many different types of choral music has been a benefit in my appreciation of my other musical exploits. Now if  I could only play what I hear in my head on the Maccann ... LOL

[Alan Day]

So we are under way with two recordings .I spoke to mike Acott tonight he will send in recordings of him singing with Duet accompaniment exactly what I wanted and has contact to Leslie Heneker and seeing Rob later in the week. We need to separate these recordings to a dedicated page ,.Hopefully provide the recordings in a similar format to my Anglo tutor where the whole lot can be downloaded in one or a number of hits.Can we expect your recordings as well David ?

Al

Edited May 15, 2019 by Alan Day

[Dee746]

58 minutes ago, Irene S. said:

I have to admit that I have no idea what pandora is! I may have to go away and look it up. As to mp3s, having fallen into friendship and musical partnership with an experienced "audio butler" who professed to have good ears, I was taught that CD recordings were preferable as they avoided the inevitable compression that was a part of the mp3 process (and I immediately add that I have never done any comparison to enable me to judge the veracity or otherwise of that view).

Personally I prefer the physical feel of a CD, the sleeve notes which I can contemplate while listening etc. Interestingly enough, of course, vinyl has now started to become popular again, so even the younger generation are starting to turn their backs on the digital formats, it would seem.

Reverting to your comments on music theory, I can't pretend to be fully educated in that area, but certainly was studying theory up until mid teens, thence turning to choral singing, and have a strong background in sight reading to a high standard. I have no doubt that my wide experience of choral singing at a high level and exposure to many different types of choral music has been a benefit in my appreciation of my other musical exploits. Now if  I could only play what I hear in my head on the Maccann ... LOL

 

OK, some DJs have made vinyl popular by doing the scratching thing (Arrgghh).  But you're right, true audiophiles are going back to vinyl because CDs can't quite compete in sound quality with the CDs. My major use of mp3/mp4 is for listening to books.  But Alan Day's downloadable mp3s are really helping me learn to play Anglo.  And for that purpose, they are wonderful.  And he can afford to distribute them for free because there are no costs for making CDs or distributing them. My husband has a huge jazz vinyl collection that he rarely plays, although w have a turn-table on every floor.  First of all they take up room, so they're on the third floor...And the CDs are less likely to get damaged and take up much less room.  But I also like having liner notes, although because of some vision issues I have to use a magnifier to read them.  Sigh...As for music theory, I'm not fully educated in that field either, and also do a lot self learning from books and the internet. I try to spend some concentrated time every 6 months or so reviewing what I've learned and adding something to new.  My latest thing is harmonic minor mode and klezmer scales/tunes.  Not there yet by a long shot!  

[douga]

15 hours ago, Alan Day said:

The Album could be based on the most popular tracks.

 

Have you considered putting these recordings up on something like Bandcamp? You can sell downloads of the recordings in multiple formats. It might be more trouble than it's worth, but it might be worth investigating.

[David Barnert]

4 hours ago, Irene S. said:

I have to admit that I have no idea what pandora is!

 

Just go to pandora.com and poke around. My first time there, I typed in “Beethoven” and wound up with a channel that streamed not only Beethoven, but Mozart, Haydn, Brahms, Bach, etc (but a LOT of Beethoven--more Moonlight Sonatas than I could stomach).

 

3 hours ago, Alan Day said:

Can we expect your recordings as well David ?

 

I sent you my tunes in November, 2007 (physically mailed in CD form), and emailed notes and a photo a few years later.

Edited May 16, 2019 by David Barnert
Changed “2006” to “November, 2007."

[Alan Day]

Hallo David ,all the recordings that were sent to me I passed on to Graham with my recommendations.These sadly stayed on his desk and may even still be there. 

I have lost contact with Graham ,probably because I kept on to him about Duet Int. There are some rare recordings involved.A contact Email would be appreciated if anyone has it.The old one and business one have been discontinued. As I have said earlier if Graham paid for the recordings as he did with yours David ,it could be argued that they are his property but any new recordings of the same tunes would not be. I would appreciate your thoughts on this.

Al