Irish Tunes On Duet Concertina

[MatthewVanitas]

I play Hayden Duet, and I've been working on transferring over some of the Irish tunes I know from tinwhistle, mandolin, etc.

 

Arguably, Duet isn't the optimal concertina for Irish (compared to Anglo or English) since technically it's not as melodically fast, and Irish music places far less emphasis on harmony than many other genres.

 

That said, the demo video clip by Aaron Marcus on the Buttonbox's Beaumont page (http://www.buttonbox.com/morse-beaumont.html and hit the "Videos" tab, last clip on the page) seems a neat example of playing a tune at moderate pace on the right while doing some sparse accompaniment on the left. Maybe a bit influenced by uilleann regulators? Is his left playing solely the chord progression such as you'd strum on a guitar, or is he tossing in anything more complex than that?

 

I'm trying to conceptualize, broadly, how this style works so I can replicate it for any other Irish tunes I play. It appears he's mainly playing It appears he's mainly playing open chords, and mostly the root chord of the melody rather than any frequent chord changes. Is there any particular way to categorize when he's choosing to tap the chord, or is it just an instinctive thing? Same for when he decides to do a longer chord, vice just tap.

 

 

Marcus clip aside, if anyone has just general advice on making Irish tunes sound good on Duet, I'm all ears. It's too easy to get monotonous holding chords too long on the left, particularly since a lot of tunes have only two or three chords.

[Geoff Wooff]

I'm doing a bit of this on the Hayden too. I guess coming from playing the Uilleann Pipes I have some built in ideas about where and how one might add a few chords both as rhythm and harmony, but due to very long absorbtion of the genre it appears to me as an instinctive reaction. However, I will think about it and try to make some suggestions.

I do have one or two tunes 'worked out' with left hand stuff and will try to make a recording.

 

Some inital suggestions;

start with simple hornpipes , barn dances, set dances etc. Never let the Notes get in the way of the Rhythm ( got that one at the weekend from a teacher of music and thought it a usefull thing to remember), so the chords would be best kept short and used to emphasise the pulse ,most of the time. Boost the melody in places simply by adding the octave below either a single note ( as is often done on the Anglo) or a short phrase of octave melody.

 

I think the Hayden / Wicki keyboard could be quite usefull for ITM, better perhaps than the other duet systems.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Geoff Wooff

[David Barnert]

I play Hayden Duet, and I've been working on transferring over some of the Irish tunes I know from tinwhistle, mandolin, etc.

 

Arguably, Duet isn't the optimal concertina for Irish (compared to Anglo or English) since technically it's not as melodically fast, and Irish music places far less emphasis on harmony than many other genres...

 

...if anyone has just general advice on making Irish tunes sound good on Duet, I'm all ears. It's too easy to get monotonous holding chords too long on the left, particularly since a lot of tunes have only two or three chords.

 

It's a great question, and one that I can't say I have an answer for.

I always feel wistful when the session comes around to an Irish tune and I've got my Hayden in my hands. Not so much because the melody notes go by so quickly, but because I don't feel that the strengths of the Hayden system are well-suited to the expectations of Irish music. Or at least I haven't yet found a way to make it satisfying.

The question boils down to: What do you do with your left hand when the tune only has two chords ( flat 7 and 1)? Playing a countermelody or harmony line wouldn't fit the style and there's only so much you can do vamping on two adjacent chords.

The guitar players noticed this a long time ago and retuned to DADGAD when accompanying Irish tunes, playing piles of notes so full of suspensions and other dissonances that one could hardly call them chords. I took a few DADGAD lessons once and have tried applying the theory to my Hayden playing, but I still haven't found a way to make it work.

 

 

[Wolf Molkentin]

I play Hayden Duet, and I've been working on transferring over some of the Irish tunes I know from tinwhistle, mandolin, etc...., if anyone has just general advice on making Irish tunes sound good on Duet, I'm all ears. It's too easy to get monotonous holding chords too long on the left, particularly since a lot of tunes have only two or three chords.

 

Hi Matthew, I don't play a Duet concertina (and no "ITM" in the strict sense too) but would question your starting point...:

 

I don't believe in tunes "having only two or three chords". You can actually always draw on the full amount of the six related chords (triads to be built from any given diatonic scale). For a start, try the parallel minors of the chords the tune already "has", so you've instantly doubled the amount of chords up to at least four.

 

What might be avoided (I don't) when playing Irish tunes is to use major chords instead of minor chords (secondary dominant; I leave that aside for the moment). But using the full amount of chords is fairly common, particuarly among (diatonic) harp players. Try the "third" stage in a major tune (f.i. Emin when the key is Cmaj), you will immediatly have the mood drastically changed...

 

However, you might not call it "chords" but "harmony", but we're talking about the material from which you might built your accompaniment, so it comes down to the same; the "chord" concept is just a conventional simplification which makes discussing easier at times...

 

So take these six chords (f.i. C, F, G maj - the "three chord trick" - and A, D. E minor; of course their are some more complex or ambiguous tunes) and then have the figures for left hand playing on a Duet discussed...

 

Hope this helps; best wishes - Wolf

[Wolf Molkentin]

addendum: Here is a link to a similar post from my side (in another context)

[Wolf Molkentin]

David,

 

in a session you might

• for once be able to make choices of your own (if you're the only one who wants to provide some harmonies);

otherwise you would be either restricted to

• following the (simpler or more complex) chords and turnarounds others are playing (maybe discussing them) or
• just playing single line melody at the given tempo.

Since I very much like to act like mentioned first I find it pretty difficult to take my part in session at all. Are we really talking about session playing or rather about playing solo with harmonies/chords (or bass run/countermelody) included?

 

Best - Wolf

 

[Don Taylor]

I would very much like to hear more about the idea of transferring DADGAD guitar techniques to the concertina.

 

I really like the sound of 'Celtic Guitar' and English players like Martin Simpson. I often have wondered if something similar can be achieved on the concertina.

[tona]

Hi,

Even if I am fond of dadgad style on guitar, I am not sure that it is the best way to develop left hand playing on duet concertina for ITM. But if you want to try with dadgad style, the first thing to do is to play chords without thirds. However the results may be very far from what you feel when listening to guitar dadgad style. String and free-reeds instruments are so different that it is difficult to find technical links between them. I think that for ITM, it is more relevant to listen to uilleann pipers when they play full set and to try to imitate with left hand what they play with drones and regulators. (I don´t know if regulator is the good word for "light" drone)

[Wolf Molkentin]

Even if I am fond of dadgad style on guitar, I am not sure that it is the best way to develop left hand playing on duet concertina for ITM. But if you want to try with dadgad style, the first thing to do is to play chords without thirds.

 

Hi Thomas,

 

I'm not sure either - but my understanding was that David was referring to sort of stacked up chords, which might mean even more open fifths, and - as he said - suspensions. This would result in a third-less ambiguous but complex sound very different from both the EC open fifths / fiddle-ish sound and (inverted / spread) triads commonly known as "chords".

 

Best - Wolf

[David Barnert]

I took a few DADGAD lessons once and have tried applying the theory to my Hayden playing, but I still haven't found a way to make it work.

 

I would very much like to hear more about the idea of transferring DADGAD guitar techniques to the concertina.

 

Like I said, I haven't gotten very far with it, but there are many tunes (and I mean, in general, contradance-type tunes, 32-bar fiddle tunes) that can be harmonized something like this:

 

Take a tune like Sheehan's Reel (just considering the A section):

X: 1
T: Sheehan's Reel
M: C|
K: G
|:G2BG DGBG|ABcA BGGB|A2AB cBAG|EAAG FDEF|
  G2BG DGBd|cBAB cdef|gedB c2Bc|dBcA BGG2:|

Using only open 5ths or open 5ths with added 7th, work your way up the G scale, moving whenever the music tells you to. G for the first 2 bars, then A for 2 bars, then B for 2 (!) bars, then C for one, and D played twice in the last bar. Voila! DADGAD Concertina. Note that the notes in any particular measure don't necessarily suggest the harmony that the left hand is playing, but the linear motion of the ascending scale is so strong that it hardly matters. And isn't that what DADGAD's all about, anyway?