Sticky Key (Ec)

[PhilEdwards]

I've got a sticking-key problem on my 1890s Lachenal EC (last checked over when I bought it a couple of years ago).

 

I've been working up a basic song accompaniment consisting mainly of chord triads (with a bit of cross-fingering); the way the chords have fallen, I've ended up holding the lower LH G down for all but a few bars, almost to the point of having a G drone.

 

The trouble is, by the time I get to the end of the song I have got a G drone - the button stays half-down and the pad stays half-up, and the G sounds with every bellows move. Some dedicated wiggling loosens it, and it behaves properly until the next time I hold it down for several bars - whereupon it seizes up again.

 

What kind of a problem do you think I've got, and what are my chances of fixing it myself?

 

 

 

[Geoff Wooff]

Could be a loose pad, hanging on by a thread and gets caught up on the pad next to it when left to flap about for a while.

 

A spring that gets fatigued by being held compressed for a while is not so likely to return to normal function.

 

Verdigris on the key is jambing in the felt ? Not very likely though.

[Wolf Molkentin]

I'd second Geoff's first guess, a loose pad might just be movable to a wider extent...

 

If you close the pad quickly after having opened it it would be likely to have remainded where it was and is supposed to, whereas after a longer lift and moving with the bellows it will have plenty of chance to migrate, away from the hole...

 

You would easily identify the loose pad after opening the concerning end, and could fix it with just a drop of glue...

 

Best wishes - Wolf

[PhilEdwards]

Sounds hopeful, but how would I get at the pad? Last time I took the end off I seemed to be looking at a closed (glued?) plywood box.

[Mike Franch]

Sounds hopeful, but how would I get at the pad? Last time I took the end off I seemed to be looking at a closed (glued?) plywood box.

 

In all ECs I've tinkered with, the top is held to the action by two screws that extend to the pillars that help hold the top in place. One screw is one of the three screws on the thumb strap, and the other is one on the three screws holding the pinkie rest. You might might have to experiment to see which screw it is, although sometimes you can tell by looking through the fretwork.

 

I suspect that it's notplywood you're seeing though, in a concertina of that age.

Edited May 22, 2014 by Mike Franch

[Wolf Molkentin]

 

Sounds hopeful, but how would I get at the pad? Last time I took the end off I seemed to be looking at a closed (glued?) plywood box.

 

In all ECs I've tinkered with, the top is held to the action by two screws that extend to the pillars that help hold the top in place. One screw is one of the three screws on the thumb strap, and the other is one on the three screws holding the pinkie rest. You might might have to experiment to see which screw it is, although sometimes you can tell by looking through the fretwork.

 

Yes Phil, you're right, I was kind of imprecise. It's not taking the ends off but opening the ends. John has it perfectly right, it will be just these two tiny screws (which should be treated carefully, with a properly fitting screwdriver, because they seem to be hard to find if you'd have to replace one).

[d.elliott]

I would suggest three things to check, I think that by holding the key down for a prolonged period the mechanism, pad, key etc. are being forced into an extreme of position that in more rapid play they would not normally see.

 

1. that the pad is wedging on the action box cover,

2. that the key is wedging with it's bushing onto the arm

3. the key/ arm / guide peg are a little misaligned and you are getting a wedging effect that way.

 

as to taking the concertina apart, well there is this book......

 

Dave

[PhilEdwards]

The pad was loose, to the extent that it turned 360 degrees around the arm; it didn't seem to be moving side to side, though. Once I'd got the top off and paid close attention to individual keys, there was definite resistance when I pressed down the G and a couple of other keys; I couldn't make out what was causing it, though. The G and C keys seemed very close together and I wondered if the G was catching on the C; not sure if this would be possible with the lid on, though.

 

Long and the short of it, I couldn't reproduce it, I couldn't see anything obvious that would have been causing it, and it hasn't recurred since I put the lid back on. Gremlins?

[PhilEdwards]

Postscript: I've put it back together and the LH G doesn't seem to be sticking. A slightly mystified Hooray. However, I've now got a dead key - the LH D, just next to the suspect G, is sounding on the push but not the pull. What have I done?

[Wolf Molkentin]

Postscript: I've put it back together and the LH G doesn't seem to be sticking. A slightly mystified Hooray. However, I've now got a dead key - the LH D, just next to the suspect G, is sounding on the push but not the pull. What have I done?

 

You migh have attracted a piece of dust now settling between reed and slot - you'd just have to remove the end, identify the reed, put a thin piece of paper underneath the whole reed (not into the slot) and remove it. That should have done it then...

[Mike Franch]

And as David Elliott so delicately and obliquely suggested, you might buy his concertina repair and maintenance book. It is really terrific. You'll have occasion to use it!

[PhilEdwards]

 

Postscript: I've put it back together and the LH G doesn't seem to be sticking. A slightly mystified Hooray. However, I've now got a dead key - the LH D, just next to the suspect G, is sounding on the push but not the pull. What have I done?

 

You migh have attracted a piece of dust now settling between reed and slot - you'd just have to remove the end, identify the reed, put a thin piece of paper underneath the whole reed (not into the slot) and remove it. That should have done it then...

 

 

Remove the reed? Could you go into that in a bit more detail? I'm not clear how the dust blocks the pull note, or how what you described gets rid of the dust. (Bear in mind you're talking to somebody who had never even seen the pads until this afternoon.)

Edited May 22, 2014 by PhilEdwards

[PhilEdwards]

And as David Elliott so delicately and obliquely suggested, you might buy his concertina repair and maintenance book. It is really terrific. You'll have occasion to use it!

 

I quite probably will, but I'm hoping that I can get my box up and running again first. (The serial # appears to be 32512, incidentally, although the 3 is hard to make out - it could just as easily be an 8, but I gather that's unlikely.)

[Mike Franch]

 

 

Postscript: I've put it back together and the LH G doesn't seem to be sticking. A slightly mystified Hooray. However, I've now got a dead key - the LH D, just next to the suspect G, is sounding on the push but not the pull. What have I done?

 

You migh have attracted a piece of dust now settling between reed and slot - you'd just have to remove the end, identify the reed, put a thin piece of paper underneath the whole reed (not into the slot) and remove it. That should have done it then...

 

 

Remove the reed? Could you go into that in a bit more detail? I'm not clear how the dust blocks the pull note, or how what you described gets rid of the dust. (Bear in mind you're talking to somebody who had never even seen the pads until this afternoon.)

 

Remove the paper after moving it around a bit. Never remove the read from the shoe or fiddle with the screws. You can pull the whole reed shoe and reed out of its slot, if necessary, but we ordinary players and minimal maintenance types should never take the reed out of the shoe.

 

Sometimes just taking the thing a part and doing very minor things like a little back and forth with a piece of paper helps. Sometimes just opening it up and saying "No more of that!" seems to do as much good. The nice thing to me about concertinas is that they're mechanical, so problems are sometimes careful observation (with a little knowledge) will resolve the problem.

[PhilEdwards]

Remove the paper after moving it around a bit. Never remove the read from the shoe or fiddle with the screws. You can pull the whole reed shoe and reed out of its slot, if necessary, but we ordinary players and minimal maintenance types should never take the reed out of the shoe.

 

Sometimes just taking the thing a part and doing very minor things like a little back and forth with a piece of paper helps. Sometimes just opening it up and saying "No more of that!" seems to do as much good. The nice thing to me about concertinas is that they're mechanical, so problems are sometimes careful observation (with a little knowledge) will resolve the problem.

 

 

I've had the thing apart but couldn't see how I'd go about getting anything in under the reed - the topside of the reed is at the bottom of a little narrow wooden trench & the underside is only accessible from inside the bellows. Bit baffled at the moment.

[Geoff Wooff]

A quick way to get your jambed reed going: if you do not feel like sliding the reed out of its slot ( by pressing outwards on the screwed clamp untill it slides loose) and checking it for débris you could try either, depressing the button and shuffling the bellows back and forth to try to dislodge whatever is blocking the reed using air... or more effective, if you have the end off, put your lips over the reed chamber of the dead note and use your cheek muscles to shuffle air back and forth through the pair of reeds... perhaps not recomended in one way, for getting breath moisture on your reeds but it often works to clear a slightly blocked reed. The action of quickly changing air direction ( pressure/ suction) is most effective.

Edited May 23, 2014 by Geoff Wooff

[d.elliott]

And as David Elliott so delicately and obliquely suggested, you might buy his concertina repair and maintenance book. It is really terrific. You'll have occasion to use it!

 

Mike, as if I would be quite so shameless

 

D

[Terry McGee]

Mike, as if I would be quite so shameless

 

Old Bratislavan saying:

 

If you don't blow your own trumpet, someone else will use it for a spitoon....

 

Terry