Is It Feasible To Add Reeds/buttons?

[James McBee]

Forgive me if this is a foolish question, or if it has been discussed before (my searches haven't turned up much), but I'm wondering how difficult it would be to add reeds and buttons to an existing concertina. It's obviously possible to some degree, as the Button Box currently has a 20 (now 21) button Jeffries with an added C, but would the modifications become prohibitive to go from say, a 26 button layout, to the standard 30? I'm guessing the answer is yes, but it seemed worth asking. Cheers.

[Wolf Molkentin]

I'd guess an addition as desired might be executed with a concertina reeded Anglo concertina as they might have some empty reed chambers both in a parallel and a radial layout. I don't know if one would be able to add reeds up to the number of 60, and using heavily bended levers might be another issue. But first of all, this isn't very likely to be done with accordian reeds in a cheaper instrument because they will already demand all space provided.

 

Anyways, discussing this will be useful only regarding a certain instrument which you wanted to keep if only the number of buttons were sufficient.

[James McBee]

I'd guess an addition as desired might be executed with a concertina reeded Anglo concertina as they might have some empty reed chambers both in a parallel and a radial layout. I don't know if one would be able to add reeds up to the number of 60, and using heavily bended levers might be another issue. But first of all, this isn't very likely to be done with accordian reeds in a cheaper instrument because they will already demand all space provided.

 

Anyways, discussing this will be useful only regarding a certain instrument which you wanted to keep if only the number of buttons were sufficient.

 

I was thinking in terms of concertina reeded Anglos. I'm currently hunting for an Anglo, and most of the better concertina reeded instruments are beyond my means. The 26 button instruments, however, seem to often go for less than half what the 30 buttons do. Of course, I could take what seems to be the usual route, and buy a 26 button Anglo, save for an upgrade, and hope to get back everything I put into the 26 when it comes time to sell; but that approach has some drawbacks. Personally, I don't enjoy the process of selling, and I have a tendency to become attached/accustomed to an instrument. In other words, while there is a certain thrill to trading up, I tend to prefer to dance with the one who brought me, as long as it can be made to meet my requirements.

 

Anyway, this thought struck me, and I'm hoping to get an idea of what the practical obstacles would be. I too figured there would hypothetically be room on the reedpan. But hypotheticals often fail to account for unknown factors (I couldn't even find a picture of a 26 button's reedpan). Like you, I also wonder about the levers/action. Anyway, if the long and short of it is, that it would end up costing more in the long run than a 30 button, or if the result would likely be a poor player, then obviously I should abandon the whole idea. But if there's a good chance that it might work (and save me some money), I'm definitely interested in exploring it. I know some people might bridle at the notion, and perhaps I have insufficient reverence for the original designs, but it seems like adding the full row of accidentals to a quality vintage instrument, would be a worthwhile improvement.

[d.elliott]

I find this a fairly common question, and not answerable until the reed pan is examined. usually easier to fit an extra reed into the square patterned reed pans rather than the radial, but the number of extra reeds you can fit is very limited, if possible at all. Then there is the need to alter the action, and even more messy to make space on the action box cover.

 

Dave

[MatthewVanitas]

Have you studied the note layouts to see if 26 (or an even lower number) might meet your needs just as well? If the "missing" notes aren't vital to your style of play, you could cash in on the price advantage, as well as the "cachet" of being the guy with a slightly different instrument.

 

I'm not an Anglo player, but iirc some folks on The Session have past discussed the minimum number of buttons to play Irish without hassle, and I believe it was 26 or even several lower than that.

[James McBee]

I find this a fairly common question, and not answerable until the reed pan is examined. usually easier to fit an extra reed into the square patterned reed pans rather than the radial, but the number of extra reeds you can fit is very limited, if possible at all. Then there is the need to alter the action, and even more messy to make space on the action box cover.

 

DaveK

 

 

Thanks Dave. I'm not surprised if it is a common question, but I certainly couldn't find anything on the subject. Then again, my web search skills may leave something to be desired. And I figured that this was probably a question that no one could answer definitively without seeing the instrument in question, but I thought I'd try to find out if anyone had done it before on any concertina, and if so, what results they achieved.

 

 

Have you studied the note layouts to see if 26 (or an even lower number) might meet your needs just as well? If the "missing" notes aren't vital to your style of play, you could cash in on the price advantage, as well as the "cachet" of being the guy with a slightly different instrument.

 

I'm not an Anglo player, but iirc some folks on The Session have past discussed the minimum number of buttons to play Irish without hassle, and I believe it was 26 or even several lower than that.

 

Hi Matthew. I've thought about that as well. It's a little early for me to say for sure, but I would add that I am not solely interested in Irish music. Playing in genres where one doesn't normally hear the concertina, is no small part of the appeal. I'm looking forward to seeing where the instrument takes me. 26 buttons might prove all I will ever need, but I would feel a lot more secure in making a purchase, if I thought I could add the remaining accidentals at some point down the road.

[Chris Ghent]

I have seen a couple modified to have extra buttons, one with one extra on the right, the other with two on the right, and neither looked good. If the design end of the action box was remade it could look OK but also could be expensive. There are good technical reasons why neither had more on the left.

 

Another possibility would be to reassign note values in a 26 to get what you want.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Chris Ghent

[Greg Jowaisas]

Hi James,

The difference in price between a 26b mahogany Lachenal and the equivalent 30b instrument is $600-$800. Concertinas can seem expensive and $600 0r $800 is certainly not chump change. However, if you start thinking about time, effort, materials and likely results of a DIY conversion to add extra buttons or the expense of having a professional do the work, then it begins to make sense to have a yard sale, ask for birthday contributions, sell another instrument or take a part time job for a month to make up the difference.

 

It could be that you are up for, and would enjoy the challenge of such a project. The older I get the more I realize that you can always find a way to make some more money. There is no way to make more time. So also give a little thought to whether you want to spend your precious time playing or "project-ing".

 

As a concertina repairman I can assure you it will take much longer to complete the work then your estimate. Unless you are incredibly lucky and super competent when you complete your first concertina project you will see ways it could have been done better.

 

Greg

[d.elliott]

I have seen a couple modified to have extra buttons, one with one extra on the right, the other with two on the right, and neither looked good. If the design end of the action box was remade it could look OK but also could be expensive. There are good technical reasons why neither had more on the left.

 

Another possibility would be to reassign note values in a 26 to get what you want.

 

Good point Chris,

 

I suppose it depend on what is driving Jame's question, is it a couple of notes that are hindering a style of play?, or is it the basic desire to up grade to a 30 key?

[wayman]

Most of the 26-button instruments I've seen have had reedpans that were only 2/3 size. So there's no space on the existing reedpans for more reeds -- you'd have to construct the remaining 1/3 of each reedpan from scratch, or just build new reedpans entirely (probably the better option). The existing action would probably have to be changed a fair bit to accommodate the levers; the action board extended; new pad holes drilled; etc etc. Plus the fretwork would need holes added. I don't think you'd likely get an instrument that was the equal of a 30-button Lachenal in the end, and even if you could do the work perfectly, as Greg points out, is it worth the time?

 

(If it's not clear what I mean by 2/3 size, picture a hexagon, the size of the concertina, oriented with corners at the top and bottom. Now divide it in thirds (like the French flag), and remove the left-most third. What remains is the reedpan -- Lachenal didn't waste the wood and other materials for building a full-size reedpan for these instruments.)

Edited April 3, 2014 by wayman

[Stephen Chambers]

It does depend very much on the instrument in question and how it was made.

 

One time I had a 26-key that the factory had half-made as a 30-key, but finished as a 26 - it already had empty slots in the reedpan, pad holes in the pallet board (with the pads glued in place) and the levers installed for the extra 4 buttons, but the reeds hadn't been installed, nor had the holes for the buttons been drilled in the endplate - so it was a no-brainer to make a 30-key out of it.

 

Another time we converted a post-war 20-key Wheatstone Anglo to a 30-key, because it was internally laid out the same as a 30-key and the placement of the 20 buttons in the endplate left room for 10 more to be added. But you wouldn't be able to do that with most of them...

Edited April 3, 2014 by Stephen Chambers

[James McBee]

Thanks all for the informative responses. That's what I was afraid of. I would add, that I wasn't thinking about a Lachenal, which I agree, almost certainly wouldn't be worth the effort. But I've seen a few 26 button Jeffries come and go, in a price range that I should be able to reach in a few months. The price of the 30 buttons, I wouldn't be able to justify to myself, even if I did manage to scrape together the cash. My thought was that I could buy a 26 button, and if I found that I couldn't live without the extra accidentals, have a professional make some modifications. It doesn't sound like that would be a very sound plan, or at least not something that I should count on being able to do. I still wouldn't rule out a 26 button. Anyway, thanks again for all your help. At the very least, I've learned something about these odd little beasts.

Edited April 3, 2014 by James McBee

[Greg Jowaisas]

I've seen a very successful conversion of a 26b metal end Jeffries to a 31b by Colin Dipper. Colin did new fret work and inlaid the "C. Jeffries Maker" from the original fret work in the palm rest. I did not inspect the interior but I imagine he made new reed pans. It was a very nice instrument.

 

The Dippers would be the ones I would go to for such a conversion. I'm not sure, with Colin, Rosalie, and John's busy schedules how long the work would take or how much it would cost.

 

Once again you are back to mitigating factors of time and money.

 

Greg