Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Chris Timson

A Certain Feeling Of Déjà Vu ...

Recommended Posts

I don't think it's just about price. Selling an unusual and valuable instrument like this is not something that happens every day. Anyone thinking of spending a few £1000 needs to have confidence in the instrument, and that implies they also need to have confidence in the seller. I guess that if this instrument was on offer from one of the big instrument retailers in the UK the price ticket might not be much different from the current ebay starting price of a shade under £5000, and it would, I think, have a good chance of eventually selling at that price too, but only from a seller with a good reputation and a backup service after it sold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it's just about price. Selling an unusual and valuable instrument like this is not something that happens every day. Anyone thinking of spending a few £1000 needs to have confidence in the instrument, and that implies they also need to have confidence in the seller. I guess that if this instrument was on offer from one of the big instrument retailers in the UK the price ticket might not be much different from the current ebay starting price of a shade under £5000, and it would, I think, have a good chance of eventually selling at that price too, but only from a seller with a good reputation and a backup service after it sold.

 

Sadly we often have to go through one bad purchase to realize those things :mellow:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it's just about price. Selling an unusual and valuable instrument like this is not something that happens every day. Anyone thinking of spending a few £1000 needs to have confidence in the instrument, and that implies they also need to have confidence in the seller. I guess that if this instrument was on offer from one of the big instrument retailers in the UK the price ticket might not be much different from the current ebay starting price of a shade under £5000, and it would, I think, have a good chance of eventually selling at that price too, but only from a seller with a good reputation and a backup service after it sold.

Now a little under £ 6,000,a most peculiar sales tecnique.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it usual to refuse to give the serial number as he is doing?

 

No, the serial number is normally considered to be very significant by potential purchasers of vintage instruments (and not just concertinas!), for several reasons - for one it means the date of manufacture can be established (which can say a lot about the design, materials and build quality), and also (when it's found on the various components of an instrument) it can prove if it is all original, as put together by the maker, or a "mongrel" that was put together later from parts of various ones. Indeed, in the case of a Wheatstone concertina, it means you can then (in most cases) look the instrument up in the ledgers and see its "birth certificate" there - which can sometimes also reveal anomalies/modifications to the original description that affect the value.

 

Mind you, he is being much more polite and helpful with his replies this time, and he's even said "it was built in 1926"...

 

But, frankly, not revealing the serial number seems downright paranoid - and he even left somebody negative feedback over asking for it! :wacko:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, going on what he has said and what the photos reveal, by "reverse lookup" the serial number must be 30998 (April 20th 1926) described as "AG Octo Black 7 1/4" 50 keys" <_<

 

And (searching the forum for that number) I've found that's confirmed in the Wheatstone anglo special thread by gavdav, who used to own the instrument in question, whilst in this post he gives a list of 16 seemingly similar examples from the ledgers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, out of academic interest, what is the consensus on what a reasonable price for this mythical concertina might be? Obviously on ebay you only have to find one person to accept your valuation, but if it were offered for proper auction, what would you expect?

 

What does "true value" mean? With a commodity like gold we can say what it is inherently worth, and then adjust the price for the specificities of the selling arrangements. For a one-off object, it is hard to separate the object itself from the selling arrangements.

 

The present seller purchased the concertina in open auction on ebay, which I think was around about £3100, someone will doubtless correct me. Since the time of that sale, the price of concertinas has if anything fallen. Given that the present seller has mainly failed to get any bids on his auctions, and hasn't allowed any auction with a low starting price to go to completion, I think that remains the best estimate of the true value of the concertina we have, whatever "true value" means in this case.

 

Someone suggested that a concertina of this specification and date would normally be worth the best part of £5000, given the reputation of Wheatstones of that period, provided these things could be warranted by a person of reputation. That is probably why the present seller thought he had a bargain and would sell it on for a good profit. One problem he has, aside from any issues relating to his own reputation, and the history of repeated non-sales, is that various persons of reputation have publicly said that this specific concertina plays peculiarly badly in comparison to its peers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, he is offering it at a discount of £744,000, apparently. Anyone know what the most is that has been paid for a concertina?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"It has been expertly restored as a fine playing instrument."

 

Anyone have any ideas who the expert was?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

About five years ago I had a chance to try this instrument. Special about it is that it has an extra row of buttons on each side, which play same note on push and pull. So it is basically a combination of anglo and duet. As the instrument is quite large, it is not necessarily a dream instrument for an Irish player, but it is very rare and unusual and with some practise one should be able do do interesting things with it...

 

If offered by one of the established shops, it should fetch well over 4.000 Sterling...

 

It seems that panda-bear does not really want to sell. Otherwise he would publish the serial number and the exact layout - or at least be nice to potential buyers...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems you may need to audition before he'll deign to sell it to you now:

 

Q: I am a concertina-player based in Dublin and I am definitely interested in this concertina. As it's a lot of money however, I would be very reluctant to even bid on an instrument before trying it out myself, to hear how it sounds, how it plays, the weight of it, etc. Do you think it would it be possible for me to meet you at a time and location of your convenience? I would like to reassure you that I am a serious potential buyer and have no intention of wasting either your time or mine. Regards, Eoin

A: Hello 'plaoscaire', Marvellous hearing from you, because I hadn't heard the Irish word 'plaoscaire' in a few years. Up the Gaeltacht! And I'm stuck into reading 'Páidí' at the minute - a great book. But you're at a bit of a disadvantage in that you have no (0) previous trading with Ebay, and sellers generally don't do business with (0)s. Certainly, I would have no problem with letting you play the instrument, but you'll have to prove your credentials first. For starters, where can I hear you play, and maybe we can take it from there? Your answer will be treated with confidentiality by me, unless you wish otherwise.

Edited by Stephen Chambers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used to own this. It has a long and interesting but very chequered history, it is a converted (wheatstone) Jeffries duet but simply isn't worth what he is asking for it and the photos are pretty kind in terms of actual condition. It would have had to have work done on it costing equal to or exceeding what I was paid for it to come close to justifying the asking prices I've seen on eBay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"It has been expertly restored as a fine playing instrument."

 

Anyone have any ideas who the expert was?

The "expert" is Sean O 'Dwyer from Dublin.....he is the only one who knows and understands "GPanda".

 

I am not a fan of "Gpanda" a.k.a. Sean O' D. or his tactics.

Edited by Ben

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think he means himself when he speaks of an "expert" - he knows someone else, in Dublin, who is a very capable concertina repairer.

Edited by Stephen Chambers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It seems you may need to audition before he'll deign to sell it to you now:

 

Q: I am a concertina-player based in Dublin and I am definitely interested in this concertina. As it's a lot of money however, I would be very reluctant to even bid on an instrument before trying it out myself, to hear how it sounds, how it plays, the weight of it, etc. Do you think it would it be possible for me to meet you at a time and location of your convenience? I would like to reassure you that I am a serious potential buyer and have no intention of wasting either your time or mine. Regards, Eoin

A: Hello 'plaoscaire', Marvellous hearing from you, because I hadn't heard the Irish word 'plaoscaire' in a few years. Up the Gaeltacht! And I'm stuck into reading 'Páidí' at the minute - a great book. But you're at a bit of a disadvantage in that you have no (0) previous trading with Ebay, and sellers generally don't do business with (0)s. Certainly, I would have no problem with letting you play the instrument, but you'll have to prove your credentials first. For starters, where can I hear you play, and maybe we can take it from there? Your answer will be treated with confidentiality by me, unless you wish otherwise.

 

In the meantime, I've found out who Eoin is because I modified a 38-key Anglo (to give it 3 drone buttons) for his cousin - and quite frankly, with their musical pedigree and fascination with drone buttons, Eoin would have been gpanda's prime customer for this box - but he put his would-be buyer off (surprise! surprise!) and they didn't even get to meet... :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In the meantime, I've found out who Eoin is because I modified a 38-key Anglo (to give it 3 drone buttons) for his cousin - and quite frankly, with their musical pedigree and fascination with drone buttons

 

Eoin B. I presume?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...