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Irish, A Whole New World


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Anne and I have just ( < 5 hours) returned from a long weekend in Dublin, the purpose of which was to explore the nearest European capital apart from London to us - given that we had been to many other European capitals much further away - and to see if we could hear some Irish music played in Ireland while we were there. Prior to this trip I have not been a great fan of Irish traditional music (I will not say ITM), because most if not all I have heard over many years has been very fast and joyless - just high speed diddley-diddley, as I have said elsewhere.

 

Anyway, with the advice of Steve Chambers, we found our way into a pub called Hughes, near the Four Courts. About 10 pm 3 fiddlers turned up in the main bar and started playing. Their style rivetted me, because it was relatively slow, thoroughly melodic, and had the sort of drive I associate with English dance music. They played things 4 or 5 times through, too. It came as little surprise when a little while later some people cleared a space and started dancing full set dances to the music. It worked, and it was lovely.

 

We went back the following night to Hughes, and this time joined the session in the snug. About a dozen players including 3 sets of pipes, fiddles, flutes (and just one bodhran, played quietly and sensitively - yes it can be done!). We heard much good music that shared the characteristics of the previous night's playing, and we got roundly told off for not bringing our concertinas! It was a great evening.

 

I have long believed that one of the main differences between English and Irish music was that English music still retains a close contact with dance. A surprisingly large proportion of the musicians at an English session play for Morris or are members of a dance band or in some other way have an active connection with the dances that use the tunes. This does not appear to be the case with the musicians in England who play primarily Irish music. I was delighted to find that it was true of the musicians we met in Dublin. I found a pleasure in their playing that I haven't found in Irish music for - what? 20 years or more.

 

Make no mistake - this is not a Road to Damascus experience. I'm not going to drop everything and go and live in Ireland for the music (like the English couple we met in the Saturday session - fiddle and Jeffries 38 button C/G - did 10 years ago). My heart is still given to English music. But it is massively reassuring to find that what I didn't like about Irish music was due to the English players that I have heard, not the music and the style itself. And I will make an effort to learn some Irish tunes, for the good of my soul and my playing.

 

Chris

Edited by Chris Timson
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In the U.S. you get both too-fast players and sessions that are clearly still connected to the dancing. The session I'm joining up with in Pittsburgh is one of the latter; one of the leaders is fiddler Oliver Browne, brother of piper Peter Browne. (and Oliver studied Astronomy in school, so he and I have twice as much to talk about) Sorry to hear this is rare in the U.K. The longer you're around, the more amazing things you see in the music world.

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I have long believed that one of the main differences between English and Irish music was that English music still retains a close contact with dance. A surprisingly large proportion of the musicians at an English session play for Morris or are members of a dance band or in some other way have an active connection with the dances that use the tunes. This does not appear to be the case with the musicians in England who play primarily Irish music. I was delighted to find that it was true of the musicians we met in Dublin. I found a pleasure in their playing that I haven't found in Irish music for - what? 20 years or more.

 

Chris, I was quite suprised to hear that you thought that Irish Trad is not connected to dancing. I guess part of the problem is that now that Trad has moved beyond Ireland and the Irish Diaspora, lots of people concentrate on the music to the exclusion of other parts of the culture that go with it. Before I started playing it myself it was a rare time when I heard the music that there wouldn't have been someone dancing to it; either (mostly) girls doing step dancing, or adults doing celi dancing (set dancing took of in my area of America only in the last 15 years or so).

 

Around here (Baltimore/Washington Area) the best session players are also members of, arguably, the best Celi Band on the East Coast of America (perhaps in America period), so the rest of us take our lead from them.

 

If you ever find yourself in Baltimore MD, USA, I invite you to stop by J. Patrick's on Thursday Nights; you won't find a better session leader than Peter Fitzgerald (even if he does play the banjo :)).

 

Make no mistake - this is not a Road to Damascus experience. I'm not going to drop everything and go and live in Ireland for the music (like the English couple we met in the Saturday session - fiddle and Jeffries 38 button C/G - did 10 years ago). My heart is still given to English music. But it is massively reassuring to find that what I didn't like about Irish music was due to the English players that I have heard, not the music and the style itself. And I will make an effort to learn some Irish tunes, for the good of my soul and my playing.

 

Its not too late to save yourself Chris; if you only knew the power of the Dark... er.. if you only knew how good Trad is for your soul.... :)

Edited by bill_mchale
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Chris's recollections remind me of a visit last summer at a session near Ennis when the young'uns began a set of reels, the old boy could be heared saying

"Your playing it too fast now Mary, slowly, slowly.

Which further reminds me of a road sign painted on the road before a sharp bend, 'SLOW'........ and even nearer the bend, 'SLOWER..

Pete.

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Which further reminds me of a road sign painted on the road before a sharp bend, 'SLOW'........ and even nearer the bend, 'SLOWER..

And that reminds me of my all-time favorite pair of road signs. On a winding one-way road through a park, you would come upon them in this order:

CHILDREN PLAYING
     15 MPH

followed shortly by

SLOW CHILDREN PLAYING
       10 MPH

............. :D

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I went to Dublin earlier this year and although I'm not a beginner to Irish music went on the "Irish Musical Pub crawl". It cost 10 euros and basically two guys gave a really interesting talk about Irish music and how it came to be at it's present place, including references to step dancing, bodhrans, ulliean pipes and the clarsach.

 

The two guys were also excellent musicians and illustrated the talk with really good performances on variously, guitar, melodeon, bodhran, whistle. In addition they sang some really lovely songs.

 

The evening was about as far away from the "diddle-diddle-dee" stereotype as you could get. They also gave information about where the proper sessions were in Dublin and to avoid the "temple bar" amplified plasitic irish music.

 

I thought it was a great evening's entertainment.

 

atb,

 

Peter

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Speaking of speedy youth playing in Eire:

 

At Willie Week in 1999 I couldn't play due to injury so I took the music appreciation class taught by Paddy Glackin. One day one of the beginning players in the class said she was surprised that kids in Ireland played the tunes way too fast; she thought only Americans did that. Paddy smiled and replied, "Youth will have its fling." He went on to point out they would slow down with maturity, and that it was better outlet for their hormones than some other kinds of mischief (trouble) that 16-year-olds could get into! ;)

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Chris, I was quite suprised to hear that you thought that Irish Trad is not connected to dancing. 

Ah, my fault, I didn't mean to say that Irish music had no connection with dance, just that, in my experience (which until now has been restricted to sessions in England and hearing some of the big-name bands) it had lost that connection, with the result that it had become fast and unmusical and unpleasant to my ears. My delight in what I found in Dublin is due to the discovery that this is not true everywhere, and seemingly especially not true in the home of the music. (Oh, and I'm not certain I completely agree with your implied description of English traditional music as the Dark Side ;) )

 

Mark, I may take up your suggestion some time. As you say, "A good tune is a good tune wherever it comes from", but I take no pleasure in good tunes (wherever their origin) played badly.

 

Last night we had the third of our sessions in Freshford. As before, it was a friendly, laid back session, mostly English music, but with the odd tune from Sweden, France and, yes, Ireland, and even some singing. In fact, if you swap English for Irish, it was much like that session in Dublin last Friday...

 

Chris

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Ah, my fault, I didn't mean to say that Irish music had no connection with dance, just that, in my experience (which until now has been restricted to sessions in England and hearing some of the big-name bands) it had lost that connection,

I have to agree with Chris, and say that it can be really difficult to hear Irish music with a genuine pace and feel over here in England. My experience was similar. I'd heard many 'Irish' groups in the UK, and went over there thinking I'd hear nothing really new. But what I found was entirely different.

...with the result that it had become fast and unmusical and unpleasant to my ears.

Perhaps, now that you've experienced the 'roots', you will be able to go back to such stuff with a better understanding, and find some of it still contains the essential ingredients, if a little blurred. I hope it gives you as much pleasure as it has me.

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Prior to this trip I have not been a great fan of Irish traditional music (I will not say ITM), because most if not all I have heard over many years has been very fast and joyless - just high speed diddley-diddley, as I have said elsewhere.

I have the same problem - there's a session fairly local to me, that I went along to a few weeks back, which has a mostly Irish repertoire (with some Breton thrown in). A friend had been trying to persuade me to go down there for a while, so I thought I'd go and broaden my horizons. But it was exactly as I'd feared: there were some very accomplished players, all playing extraordinarily fast and legato. Each tune sounded virtually identical to my ears. The few slow airs, and the Breton tunes, were lovely, but the rest left me completely cold.

 

This discussion, though, has reminded me that I downloaded some sound clips from Mary MacNamara's website about a year ago, and was bowled over by the lyricism of her playing. I must go and buy some of her records...

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ITM can be played for dancing across here - I play interspersed with proper Scottish stuff and the dancing class purists still dance to it - they propably don't realise.

If you are primarily a dance band player, you might make ITM sound more interesting to English ears by making it danceable rather than a race.

I am pleased but not surprised Chris found it a revelation.

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Chris, I was quite suprised to hear that you thought that Irish Trad is not connected to dancing. 

Ah, my fault, I didn't mean to say that Irish music had no connection with dance, just that, in my experience (which until now has been restricted to sessions in England and hearing some of the big-name bands) it had lost that connection, with the result that it had become fast and unmusical and unpleasant to my ears. My delight in what I found in Dublin is due to the discovery that this is not true everywhere, and seemingly especially not true in the home of the music. (Oh, and I'm not certain I completely agree with your implied description of English traditional music as the Dark Side ;)

Chris, Just two points...

 

1. Even Dublin is not really the home of Irish Music; the best places is to go out to the Country to the Counties and villiages where the regional styles developed; to Kerry, East-Galway, Sligo and the others.

 

2. I wasn't equating English Music with the Dark Side, I was equating Irish Music with it, for once you start down its path forever will it dominate your destiny :)

 

That being said, I am Irish by birth (American by accident of geography) so by national right I get to make cheap shots at English Culture :) At least our dancers don't wear bells :) See, now there is a cheap shot ;)

 

--

Bill

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Even Dublin is not really the home of Irish Music; the best places is to go out to the Country to the Counties and villiages where the regional styles developed; to Kerry, East-Galway, Sligo and the others.

But especially Clare for the concertina ...

At least our dancers don't wear bells :)  See, now there is a cheap shot ;)

Bill, with the exception of the Wren Boys, The Wexford Carollers, and perhaps a few more I've never heard of, Ireland doesn't have that many ritual traditions. England has many. The equivalent English "dancers" don't wear bells either. Vive la difference! :) England can show something of what pagan Ireland almost lost, and Ireland can show something of what the Victorians almost destroyed in England. The USA presents "cabaret" versions of both :) See, now there is a even cheaper shot ;) Where's Jim?

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1. Even Dublin is not really the home of Irish Music; the best places is to go out to the Country to the Counties and villiages where the regional styles developed; to Kerry, East-Galway, Sligo and the others.

 

2. I wasn't equating English Music with the Dark Side, I was equating Irish Music with it, for once you start down its path forever will it dominate your destiny :)

 

That being said, I am Irish by birth (American by accident of geography) so by national right I get to make cheap shots at English Culture :)  At least our dancers don't wear bells :)  See, now there is a cheap shot ;)

1. I have good friends (including, now, yourself) who have pointed this out, and I shall follow this up, particularly East Clare, I think.

 

2. We shall see, but it has some stiff competition. Over that side of the pond you may not realise just how good English music is. Do yourself a favour and get to next year's English Country Music Weekend. Just ask Henk!

 

That being said, I am English by birth, so by national right I get to make cheap shots at the colonials (there's one to start with :) )

 

Chris

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Do yourself a favour and get to next year's English Country Music Weekend. Just ask Henk!

Well, I do not wait till someone asks me...

It was really an eye-opener (ear-opener?) for me, although I was only there on Saturday. I saw people really playing with passion (with eyes closed), something that I did not really expected in England.

It was great to watch and to listen to!!

 

P.S.: Chris, I am really glad to hear about your experience in Ireland.. and when you are in East-Clare, try to listen to a performance of Mary MacNamara. She playes so relaxed!!

Edited by Henk van Aalten
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At least our dancers don't wear bells :)

I guess that's why they're required to do all that stomping... to warn you that they're coming. :D

 

See, now there is a cheap shot ;)

A cap pistol is a cheap shot, no?

 

By the way, some Irish friends have told me that Ireland does have Morris dancers, and not as a recent import. Mummers, too. But they are quite rare these days.

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