lmoncur Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Hello! I'm a new user on this forum so first off wanted to say hello! I've been playing concertina for about 20 years since the age of about 10! I've just bought a new wooden ended wheatstone concertina - my other concertina is a metal-ended and very loud so wanted something a little quieter for acoustic song accompaniment. However, my new concertina has an interesting history which I'm fascinated by and I would to get to the bottom of it. It has the usual Wheatsone label on one side but a very unusual label on the other side which reads: MADE TO ORDER OF T. WALLACE CHURCH, LANCS. WHEATSTONE & CO. MANUFACTURERS, LONDON. The normal label reads: WHEATSTONE & CO. PATENTEES AND 22551 MANUFACTURERS 20, CONDUIT STREET, LONDON, W I bought the concertina from barleycorn concertinas and have been told that to find a Wheatstone with the name of another person is extremely unusual. I've looked up T Wallace on the 1911 census and found that he was 49, living in Church, Lancashire and is described as a 'dealer and repairer of musical instruments'. However I can find no other trace of him or any connection Wheatstone on the internet. Church in Lancashire is very small place. The population now is under 4000 and it was probably smaller in the 1890's. I just wondered if anyone had come across anything similar or had ever heard of a T Wallace who dealt in concertinas or how he would have managed to get Wheatstone to actually add his name to the label! Thanks so much and I look forward to chatting to you all :-) Louise x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maki Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 No idea on your mystery concertina. But, I would like to extend a warm and hearty welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Laban Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmoncur Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 Ha ha!! Thank you for the warm welcome Louise x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmoncur Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 lmncur? I wasn't expecting that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Welcome! I just wondered if anyone had come across anything similar or had ever heard of a T Wallace who dealt in concertinas or how he would have managed to get Wheatstone to actually add his name to the label! I don't know about a T. Wallace, but I do know that various sellers of Lachenal-made instruments sometimes pasted their own label overtop the standard Lachenal label. I wonder if this could be a similar case, but slightly more honest, with the serial number shifted (added) to a Wheatstone-like label on the right-hand end so that Wallace could put his own label on the left-hand end. Any chance of close up photos of the two labels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 lmncur? I wasn't expecting that! Here on concertina.net you should expect just about anything, as long as it's good natured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmoncur Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 Hi Jim, Thanks for your reply. I've tried to take photos of the labels. Barleycorn concertinas who sold to it me are convinced it's a factory label from Wheatstone. He's said he'd seen Lachenal's with dealers labels but not a Wheatstone. My first thought was that the man labelled it himself but it does look very genuine. Here's the photos and thanks again for your interest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmoncur Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 Sorry, hopefully the pictures will be here - still getting my head around working things :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Laban Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 The first port of call should probably be the Wheatstone ledgers to see what they say about the serial nr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 (edited) The first port of call should probably be the Wheatstone ledgers to see what they say about the serial nr. Unfortunately the serial number records for this period have been lost... I have Number 22695 (which is a fearsome Noisy little beast that I use for Band and session playing, you met this one last year Peter) which I estimate to have been made in 1898. Harry Minting (who I met in the 1970's or '80's) was the last manager at Wheastones, he had made a rough guide to serial numbers and dates... from which I made my estimate. Congrats on your new Concertina Imoncur... and welcome to these forums. Sorry, never heard of Mr Wallace either, Geoff. Edited September 30, 2013 by Geoff Wooff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmoncur Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 The first port of call should probably be the Wheatstone ledgers to see what they say about the serial nr. Hi Peter, Thanks so much but unfortunately with the serial number 22551, I've dated the concertina to 1898 which sadly isn't covered as far as I can see by the ledgers. I really wish it was! x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmoncur Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 The first port of call should probably be the Wheatstone ledgers to see what they say about the serial nr. Unfortunately the serial number records for this period have been lost... I have Number 22695 (which is a fearsome Noisy little beast that I use for Band and session playing, you met this one last year Peter) which I estimate to have been made in 1898. Harry Minting (who I met in the 1970's or '80's) was the last manager at Wheastones, he had made a rough guide to serial numbers and dates... from which I made my estimate. Congrats on your new Concertina Imoncur... and welcome to these forums. Sorry, never heard of Mr Wallace either, Geoff. Hi Geoff and thanks for the warm welcome! Wow, you're isn't too far away from mine. I'd dated mine to around 1898 too! I wish there were more ledgers! My other concertina appears in them and I loved reading about it! x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 A welcome from me too. To the point: Playing a Lachenal EC myself (and having learnt how it compares to other "Lachenals") I can tell you that your concertina is looking pretty different. Can't judge on other makers, but a Lachenal it is not I'd say... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmoncur Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 A welcome from me too. To the point: Playing a Lachenal EC myself (and having learnt how it compares to other "Lachenals") I can tell you that your concertina is looking pretty different. Can't judge on other makers, but a Lachenal it is not I'd say... Thanks for the welcome! The concertina is definitely a wheatstone as it has the labels in it. I'd just love to know how it came to have the name of the man who commissioned it in the labels too! Louise x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Laban Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Hi Peter, Thanks so much but unfortunately with the serial number 22551, I've dated the concertina to 1898 which sadly isn't covered as far as I can see by the ledgers. I really wish it was! x It wasn't clear from your original post you were aware of the ledgers so I thought I'd mention the obvious, aware there are gaps but unaware your concertina's origins were in one of those gaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmoncur Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 Hi Peter, Thanks so much but unfortunately with the serial number 22551, I've dated the concertina to 1898 which sadly isn't covered as far as I can see by the ledgers. I really wish it was! x It wasn't clear from your original post you were aware of the ledgers so I thought I'd mention the obvious, aware there are gaps but unaware your concertina's origins were in one of those gaps. Thanks Peter - every idea is very much appreciated! I wish I could get to the bottom of this xxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrtle's cook Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I too was intrigued by this concertina when it was listed for sale. 'Barleycorn concertinas who sold to it me are convinced it's a factory label from Wheatstone.' I have compared these labels to those on my Wheatstone (no. 23296, an aeola) and I would agree (on this slender basis) with Chris Algar's observation as the font of the printed surrounding script looks pretty much identical. One difference is that the stamped number looks to be in a different font - although this may not be significant given the finite life of such rubber based stamps. One wonders what could have lead to this preferrential treament of Wallace? Was he perhaps an apprentice at Wheatstone, friend, relation etc?. Clearly it was something exceptional. Hope it sounds as good as it looks - in my limited experience Wheatstones from this period have a lovely mellow tone balanced with a fast response. ...oh, and welcome to the forum too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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