Learning From Scratch On A Bb/f Concertina

[watty]

Hi all,

 

New to the forum and the concertina in general.

 

I had wanted a concertina since I heard a chap playing one in a local folk session (I was an observer rather than a player). Picked up a 20 button Scholer anglo from ebay last week (I am aware of the reputation of Scholer, but I thought at £15 with only minor repairs required it was worth it / the only thing in my current price range!)

 

The advertisement didn't have a key on but i decided to go for it anyway. On testing it looks like it is in Bb/F. (Possibly a slightly out of tune Bb/F).

 

I was planning on learning to play from some audioguides linked to on here in the past, youtube lessons, or maybe pick up the odd book. Obviously most of these were written for C/G concertina. I was just wondering if anyone knew of any resources that might be of use to me? I am essentially learning with zero experience of concertina playing and very limited knowledge of musical theory.

 

I have managed to pick out a couple of simple tunes myself by ear (but only really playing the melody lines to songs to get acquainted with the button layout). I could just keep going down that route, but not sure it is the best plan!

 

Cheers, sorry for the long post!

Andrew

[Don Taylor]

Andrew

 

I have the same problem as I have an Ab/Eb box. I have been using Transpose! to adjust the sound of recordings to match my concertina. I find that I can use the tutorials for C/G boxes by simply pretending I have a C/G box and adjusting the pitch of the tutorial CD.

 

The real problem will occur when we want to play with another concertina, maybe a teacher or at a session. One solution would be to join a brass band...

 

Don.

[watty]

Thanks for the advice. I use audacity a lot, just had a quick look and turns out it has a transpose function as well. Might well be what I was looking for. Will give it a go tonight!

 

How long have you been playing?

 

A brass band sounds like taking slightly extreme measures to me! . I think it will be a good while before I would be confident enough to play with other people so I will cross that bridge when I come to it I guess!

Edited September 5, 2013 by watty

[maki]

Welcome to the forum.

[watty]

Welcome to the forum.

 

Thank you!

 

I have tried transposing down to Bb/F and found I am still having issues.

 

To figure out the key of my instrument I used the instructions at the bottom here:

 

http://www.bushtraditions.org/tutors/concertina.htm

 

However I didn't test the alternate key... turns out that they don't match on my concertina (A# right on the recommended note on the right and D# on the left)?!

I do have an A# inside middle on the left though...? Anyone have any clue?!

 

I have had a look into the tuning further and started mapping it out (just by ear with a keyboard...). Only got the left done but it got a little late and didn't want to annoy the neighbours any more.

 

Left appears to be tuned.... (squeezing note on the left):

 

Outside

 

A#/C F#/G D#/F A#/C D/A#

 

Inside

 

F/G C#/D A#/C F/A A#/F

 

(May be some slight mistakes as it was getting late and I was trying to keep quiet...)

Edited September 5, 2013 by watty

[watty]

(Oh and i fully appreciate that it might just be an old thing thats fallen completely out of tuning!)

[Don Taylor]

Those notes don't make much sense to me.

 

If you have access to an Android device then there is a free chromatic tuner app called DATuner that you can use to check the pitches of each button. There are similar chromatic tuners available for the iphone and the ipad but I have no experience in using them. DATuner is accurate on my Android phone and tablet.

 

On the left hand side when you press the right most three buttons in at the same time then do you get a pleasant sounding major chord?

Edited September 6, 2013 by sjm

[watty]

I should have said the button order, I was starting with the "top" button (index finger) working down. My relative pitch is relatively good so should be able to get it close enough from keyboard. Tried dat tuner and I think it was just an off pitch variant of what i listed before. (Has dropped out of tune a bit. Glad its not just me it makes no sense to though!)

 

I will map them all out on DatTuner and check the chord after work (if i get the chance). May open it up and just check if it is printed anywhere what tuning it is meant to be if all else fails...

 

Chances are this was originally a C/G that has fallen unrecognisably out of tune, or else been a bit butchered at some point!

[Bill N]

The push note on the middle button on the left hand will give you the "home key" for each row. From what you've posted , I would guess that it is an out-of-tune D/A concertina. My experience with Scholers is that they come in the following tunings ( from most to least numerous): C/G, G/D, D/A. I haven't encountered a Bb/F.

 

Is it double or single reeded?

[Don Taylor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbPw0yR19zM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Anglo-Irishman]

The real problem will occur when we want to play with another concertina, maybe a teacher or at a session. One solution would be to join a brass band...

 

 

Don,

As I understand it, Ab/Eb anglos are very often ex-Salvation Army instruments, and there's a S.A. tutor for the Ab/Eb anglo somewhere on Cnet. The reason being, of course, that as a Salvationist, you'd be playing a lot with brass, or playing songs preferably set in brass-band keys.

 

Cheers,

John

[maki]

 

The real problem will occur when we want to play with another concertina, maybe a teacher or at a session. One solution would be to join a brass band...

 

 

Don,

As I understand it, Ab/Eb anglos are very often ex-Salvation Army instruments, and there's a S.A. tutor for the Ab/Eb anglo somewhere on Cnet. The reason being, of course, that as a Salvationist, you'd be playing a lot with brass, or playing songs preferably set in brass-band keys.

 

Cheers,

John

 

 

 

 

The real problem will occur when we want to play with another concertina, maybe a teacher or at a session. One solution would be to join a brass band...

 

 

Don,

As I understand it, Ab/Eb anglos are very often ex-Salvation Army instruments, and there's a S.A. tutor for the Ab/Eb anglo somewhere on Cnet. The reason being, of course, that as a Salvationist, you'd be playing a lot with brass, or playing songs preferably set in brass-band keys.

 

Cheers,

John

 

Look through these-

http://www.concertina.com/merris/bibliography/english-tutors.htm

[JimLucas]

Look through these-

http://www.concertina.com/merris/bibliography/english-tutors.htm

 

Don't you mean these?

Your link was to the page of tutors for the English, but watty's concertina is some sort of an anglo.

(The page heading did say "Instruction Manuals for the English, Anglo, and Duet Concertina", and though the subheading said "Part I. English Concertina", it unfortunately didn't say that "Part II. Anglo Concertina" was a separate web page. It was necessary to scroll down to the bottom to see that information.)

[maki]

Thanks JL!

[watty]

Thanks for the pointers! Sorry been without internet over the weekend since I have been moving house. I will try to catch up with all the replies on my lunch break today!

[watty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbPw0yR19zM&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

Or now! Thanks for the video, I have the smaller D/A. (It is almost that exact model, just slightly more bashed up). Makes a little more sense now.

 

I watched the next video where he has a play on the instrument as well. He appears to have the same issue as mine in that the tuning is sharp (slightly more extreme in my case possibly. My notes are much closer to the sharps than naturals. I gave it to a friend yesterday and he thought it was roughly in D#/A# but in reality hovering somewhere in the abyss between). The instrument is otherwise in tune with itself which is something!

 

Any thoughts on whether it is actually worth getting an instrument like this tuned properly (initial outlay for it was only £15 so not huge, not sure how much tuning would cost?)

 

Look through these-

http://www.concertina.com/merris/bibliography/english-tutors.htm

 

 

Thanks! They should come in very useful.

The push note on the middle button on the left hand will give you the "home key" for each row. From what you've posted , I would guess that it is an out-of-tune D/A concertina. My experience with Scholers is that they come in the following tunings ( from most to least numerous): C/G, G/D, D/A. I haven't encountered a Bb/F.

 

Is it double or single reeded?

 

I'm afraid I'm not sure what double or single reeded means, it is essentially the same model as in the video SJM posted (the smallest concertina). From that it looks like your best guess is right! Its actual pitch is hovering somewhere between D/A and D#/A# but i guess it should have been a D/A at some point in its life.

Edited September 9, 2013 by watty

[Don Taylor]

If it is in tune with itself then use DATuner to find the best value you can for the key value on each row - middle button push on the LHS and/or 1st button push on the RHS. Maybe take the average of these two taking accountof the octave difference. Then use the difference between these two pitches and C for the top row and G for the bottom row to give you your pitch adjustment for Audacity.

 

If it is not in tune with itself then you are probably wasting your time. IMHO. I suppose you could try filing the reeds yourself to try to re-tune it - you would have nothing to lose but your time. If (when?) you bodge the reeds then hang onto/offer the box as somebody might be able to use the bellows to make a tuning jig.

 

I do not think it is worth trying to get this tuned professionally. Put that money towards a decent box.

 

Yours is single reeded. Double reeds is what it says: two reeds that are almost in tune with each other sound for each button push or pull. Real concertinas are typically single reeded, accordions are double, triple, or quad reeded. The degree of difference in pitch between the reeds in an accordion give different distinctive tones: Cajun, French musette, etc... But you do not need to go there.

 

Save up for a Rochelle.

 

Don.

[Ricardo]

Hello Guys, I am new in this forum, I recently bought a Alfred Arnold Bandoneon-Concertina 128 tones. I am a beginner in this instrument . I am interested in tango music. I was told that 142 tones were appropriated , but 128 tones are " studio bandoneon" .....instructors in america will be difficult to find, I wonder where can I find material to study 128 concertina layout?....I will really appreciated your help.