Irish Anglo Concertina

[d.elliott]

a have seen a couple of anglos recently, described by their owners as Irish concertinas, or Irish anglos, i cannot see any diferences with any other anglos. I play english system, and only enough anglo to be able to road test them, so i would appreciate any comments on ditingushing features or set ups.

 

Or is this just a bit of market diferencing?

 

Cheers

Dave

[Peter Laban]

I'd say it would be along the same lines as 'Irish Flute' or 'Irish Whistle' or even 'Irish Mandolin'. Guff.

[JimLucas]

a have seen a couple of anglos recently, described by their owners as Irish concertinas, or Irish anglos, i cannot see any diferences with any other anglos. I play english system, and only enough anglo to be able to road test them, so i would appreciate any comments on ditingushing features or set ups.

 

I think it's becoming more and more common among those who play Irish music on the anglo to refer to their sort of concertina as "Irish", rather than using a word that in most other contexts means "English", with its various political and cultural connotations. It's about like the recent news (new to me, anyway) that some Irish concertina players call their C/G boxes "D concertinas", a local terminology developed and used by a group other than our own.

 

Furthermore, while it seems contrary to our own established terminology, it does make sense in terms of marketing aimed at a particular potential customer base. If you're trying to sell to naive would-be Irish concertina players, just saying you're selling an "anglo" concertina may well get you overlooked, since so many folks new to the concertina have yet to encounter the "anglo vs. English" distinction. If you say, "an anglo concertina, like the Irish play," you may still get overlooked, with the attention turning away as soon as the reader encounters the word "anglo". But start with the word "Irish", and your potential customer will read further. That's just good marketing sense.

[d.elliott]

My first reaction to one chap who passed his 'Irish Anglo' to me was to say 'no such thing, its an Anglo -German concertina', he did not seem impressed.

 

So, slanting this slightly, Anglo players, on the 35+ key instruments, is there a favoured p[reference for the use of the additional keys, for Irish Music. Talk C-G, or on D-G layout, I can convert one to the other, no problems

 

Dave

[Chris Ghent]

As one of the offenders I think there is a small element of marketing in it but nothing serious, selling anglos is not the issue, its making them.

 

I reject the nationalist argument.

 

In regards ot whether there is anything physically different in an "Irish concertina", in general there is a thirst in Ireland for fast and louder instruments to suit the modern style. This is easiest achieved with smaller sq area reedpans, smaller chambers and tight clearances for the reeds. These are not concertinas you would choose for singing.

 

As one example, those great makers Colin and Rosalie Dipper have a model named for Irish music, their County Clare, and yes , it is smaller than their Cotswold model.

 

While I can see aspects of design which shape a concertina towards being more ideal for Irish tunes and sessions I have trouble imagining similar shifts in design for flutes, whistles and mandolins. But I know nothing about them.

 

Dave, following your shift, in the plus 35 instruments, it is my experience few players with these instruments in Ireland exploit the extra notes available. For some it is because their starter instrument was a 30 key and apart from a few obvious reversals they do not delve into the possibilities. Others value the nature of the 30 key. Noel Hill plays one, in itself proof more buttons are not necessary, and I know another noted player, a Suttner player, who recently converted from 38 to 30 because he said it was coping with the limitations of the 30key that gave the Irish concertina its idiosyncratic style.

 

A few, Micheal O'Raghallaigh, another Suttner player, comes to mind, do use all of the notes to advantage. They tend to be people who use chords a lot.

 

For the ordinary Irish player I think the most useful keys are reversals of the two F#s, the E reversal, and on Wheatstone layouts the C# reversal. Mmm, reversed G#s are nice too. Having the high A reversal in a better place can be handy on Jeffries layouts also. This is talking C\G, very few Irish players play G\D

 

I don't know if anyone uses the Jeffries drone buttons, i suppose someone must. The 19th century makers were not thinking of the Irish canon wirth their layout. I often think about an ideal 34 key layout, 34 because it is much more straightforward to fit into a standard size instrument than 38. You could fit the essential reversals into 34.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

[Frank Edgley]

"the limitations of the 30key that gave the Irish concertina its idiosyncratic style." to quote Chris's post.

Exactly! I made the mistake, 30 years ago when I ordered my Dipper concertina, to ask for 36 buttons. Not only are they not necessary for traditional music, they change the nature of the tunes played. I play the Wheatstone/Lachenal system, although I do make both. There are very few tunes that I find even the reverse C# necessary or even desirable.

[Henrik Müller]

I'd say it would be along the same lines as 'Irish Flute' or 'Irish Whistle' or even 'Irish Mandolin'. Guff.

Could be worse - could be "celtic"...

/Henrik

[michael sam wild]

What Frank said!

[felix castro]

My brother is a flute player, and about flutes there were, as Hammy Hamilton explains in his book, two main styles of flutes, the continental, i.e. german and french flutes, with narrower bore, smaller holes, pin mounted keys and lesss volume and different tone ("sweeter") and those by makers mainly from the U.K., Ireland, and later from the U.S.A. with wider bore, big holes, and more volume, and block mounted keys (with a more "full" sound). The Nicholson improved flutes were a typical example of the kind of instrument that preferred many U.K. musicians.