Is It A Correct Price For This?

[Eddy]

Hi

 

Is it a correct price for this concertina or, for some reason, is it not so attractive for the market?

I see a lachenal with higher start bidding price...

It'd be a intriguing start in the world of anglo concertina

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wheatstone-Anglo-Concertina-30-key-in-C-G-with-original-case-newly-restored-/231007629346?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Keyboard_RL&hash=item35c920b022

 

Thanks

[Geoff Wooff]

You could assume that the seller has started with a "come and buy me" price and is hoping that people will start bidding the price up.

 

The other thing to say is that these Wheatstones from the 1950's are not as well thought of as the ones from before the War and therefore they do not sell for the same prices.

 

However this one looks to have been nicely restored but you should ask about the Reeds.... are they the traditional concertina reeds in tapered slots or are they the accordion type reeds held in place by screws..

[malcolmbebb]

Hi Eddy,

I think the seller might be on here, but failing that - if it's who I think it is - an Ebay enquiry should find this information.

[Mike Franch]

You might also ask if the reed frames are brass or aluminum.

[Daniel Hersh]

You could assume that the seller has started with a "come and buy me" price and is hoping that people will start bidding the price up.

 

The other thing to say is that these Wheatstones from the 1950's are not as well thought of as the ones from before the War and therefore they do not sell for the same prices.

 

However this one looks to have been nicely restored but you should ask about the Reeds.... are they the traditional concertina reeds in tapered slots or are they the accordion type reeds held in place by screws..

 

The screwed-in-place, "crimped" Wheatstone reeds are indeed not as desirable as the traditional-style reeds in tapered slots - but I believe that the screwed/crimped reeds are still much closer in sound and overall design to traditional concertina reeds than they are to accordion reeds.

[RP3]

Mike made a good point about asking about the material used in the reed frames. Aluminum was used in some of the later Wheatstone models and is not as desirable as those concertinas made with brass reed frames. Some aluminum reed frame concertinas are fine but it is often a reason for concern.

 

Ross Schlabach

[RAc]

The seller now has added the information that this is a steel reeded instrument.

 

I'd expect the price to skyrocket to about 1000 within the last minutes of the auction.

[Bill Crossland]

This is a typical post war Wheatstone, as exported in substantial numbers to South Africa. The action isn't riveted, and the steel reeds are in aluminium frames which are surface mounted - pictures below. These instruments rarely have the volume and bite of "traditional" instrument, but they are good players as long as you don't want to dominate a session!

 

Bill

 

 

[Daniel Hersh]

This is a typical post war Wheatstone, as exported in substantial numbers to South Africa. The action isn't riveted, and the steel reeds are in aluminium frames which are surface mounted - pictures below. These instruments rarely have the volume and bite of "traditional" instrument, but they are good players as long as you don't want to dominate a session!

 

Bill

 

Bill--

 

You're the seller/restorer, I assume? How are the reeds fastened to the reed pans on this one? Can they be removed for tuning, or do they have to be tuned in place? And how would the bite/volume compare to a Lachenal, in your opinion?

[Bill Crossland]

Yes, I am the restorer. The reeds, as you can see in the picture, are clamped to the reed pan, but could be taken out to tune if necessary. Since the instrument was originally in concert pitch, I did not have to take any out to tune - thankfully!

 

As for performance, it is better than the average mahogany ended Lachenal but not as bright as a good rosewood ended Lachenal. As described - mellow!

[Daniel Hersh]

Yes, I am the restorer. The reeds, as you can see in the picture, are clamped to the reed pan, but could be taken out to tune if necessary. Since the instrument was originally in concert pitch, I did not have to take any out to tune - thankfully!

 

As for performance, it is better than the average mahogany ended Lachenal but not as bright as a good rosewood ended Lachenal. As described - mellow!

 

Thanks for the info! How do you get a reed out from under its clamps? Do you just slide it sideways?

[Bill Crossland]

Each end is held down by a sprung clamp - I believe Geoff Crabb described this method in one of his informative posts elsewhere on Cnet. Not a restorer

friendly system

[Geoffrey Crabb]

Each end is held down by a sprung clamp - I believe Geoff Crabb described this method in one of his informative posts elsewhere on Cnet. Not a restorer

friendly system

 

To save others searching for the posting mentioned by Bill, I have posted an abbreviated version here and an associated attachment at the end of the text.

 

My comments and thoughts are concerned only with concertina type ‘individual’ reeds.

I fully accept that 'accordion' style reeds are widely used in some more modern instruments and that the methods of installation are controlled by the design of these.

 

Historically, numerous ideas for concertina construction have been suggested. Some have proved successful and been adopted. Others however, although initially thought to be good, actually tried and present in some production instruments, were soon or eventually dropped.

Most ideas involved making assembly simpler & easier using a minimum of skilled labour to either increase output to meet a demand or to lower retail price, in the hope of promoting sales in difficult times.

 

Whilst changes in manufacture may be seen as a decline in quality of some makes/models of instrument, it is unfortunate that many of the ideas adopted, being concerned purely with manufacturing costs, disregarded ease of future maintenance and repair possibilities and the costs involved.

 

When discussing surface mounted methods for reeds (Screw or clip fixed) as found in some Wheatstone instruments it is worth noting some advantages/disadvantages of those methods.

Advantages:-

No machining of grooves in reed pan. (Wind slots still have to be made accurately through the pans and, unless hand cut, some machine may be required for this).

Retaining slope to the edges of reed frames not required.

Relatively unskilled labour to install reeds initially.

 

Disadvantages:-

Reed frames are made longer to include fixing holes thus requiring longer chambers than may be preferred for the majority of reeds in the Treble range, which may be detrimental to response.

Some redesign of chamber layout to allow reed installation and possible accommodation in standard size instrument.

Compromised space for wind slots and valves of associated reeds.

Holes required to exactly match those in the reed frames if clip fixing used.

Fixing screws or suitable clip fixing components to be made or procured.

The inevitable pan ‘stripped thread’ situations with screw fixing.

 

Although initially quicker to install reeds, the greatest disadvantage is the time requirement to unscrew or unclip reeds when fine tuning or levelling during the finishing of a new instrument or subsequent tuning adjustment when required.

Accurate tuning can only be determined by sounding the reeds when in the instrument with an end box temporarily held in place, therefore the reeds may have to be removed to a sounding (tuning) bellows or jig several times for adjustments to accomplish this.

In comparison to instruments fitted with traditional ‘slide in’ reeds, it is possible (personal experience in retuning) that the time spent on this exercise could be at least double that of ‘traditional’ slide-in reeds and hence the cost would also be at least doubled.

 

 

 

Geoffrey

[Greg Jowaisas]

I always love Geoff's clear and careful explanations. The pictorials he works up go beyond mere draftsman requirements and at least to me take on an "illuminated concertina" glow.

 

I keep hoping that someday we will have a published collection of Geoff's explanations and illustrations. Wouldn't that be like a concertina version of "The Book of Kells"?!!

 

Greg

[maki]

I buy that book!