Buttons Not Straight - Stagi 30 Key English

[penthes]

I recently acquired a 30 key English Stagi to learn on. All the notes play fine, but the buttons aren't straight - ie they don't come out of their holes perpendicular, see these pictures:

 

 

I've read the numerous posts on Stagi/Bastari button wobble (particularly http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=13950) and the Geo Salley article on replacing the button sleeves http://www.concertina.net/gs_stagirepair.html.

 

However on opening up the left hand end, there are no sleeves at all, plus the action looks slightly different in that there's no room for play/movement - the pin on the end of the button goes through a hole in the lever.

 

 

So instead it looks like the problem with the angle of the buttons is due to the levers getting bent after many years of vigorous playing.

 

I did have an issue with one button where the action was catching slightly from time-to-time, which I've corrected by bending the lever back a little.

 

So a couple of questions that I'd welcome opinion on:

 

1) Would fitting sleeves be of any benefit at all given that the action that's in there doesn't seem to warrant them (the sleeves would at least help with the process of getting the action back into the end, it's quite fiddly with all the buttons dangling freely!)?

 

2) Is it worth trying to correct the angles of the buttons by bending the levers? The current button angles don't (for me at least, at my current beginner level) seem to be affecting the play-ability of the instrument (apart from the one I've already corrected due to it catching)? (I can imagine it would be quite a job, with a lot of trial and error, to get them all straightened up.)

 

 

[Geoff Wooff]

It would appear, from your pictures, that the holes in the levers are too large for the cross pins. This would cause the buttons to flop about, but if there is a good fit between these parts then there would be a tendancy for the buttons to change angle as you press them.

 

I guess you could try to adjust the lever angles so that the connecting holes are as exactly under the end plate holes as is possible... with the idea of having the buttons 'straight', at least at the commencement of play.

 

These things are perhaps ok when new but as a second, or third hand purchase...... they are frustrating to say the least.

 

Minimum requirement for a learner model Concertina (or one of them) is buttons that do not flop about...

[penthes]

Actually the buttons don't flop around that much, there is some play, but I'd say that's about 0.5mm (1/64") at most, it's just that some of them are at an angle (and remain at that angle whilst being pushed down).

[Wolf Molkentin]

You might try to adjust the entire lever banks in order to decrease the problem in the first place...

Edited May 21, 2013 by blue eyed sailor

[d.elliott]

Did the levers have the sleeves fitted when you got the instrument? I sorted out the same problem by simply adjusting the locations of the rubber sleeves so the keys sat in a more upright attitude. I think you may need sleeves fitting

 

Dave

[penthes]

No there were no sleeves fitted.

 

The joint between the button and the lever is a pin going through a round hole, which seems to be a slightly different construction from those I've read about in other posts (mainly Anglos) and the Geo Salley article - there's very little room for adjustment which is why I wondered if fitting sleeves would be of any benefit.

 

 

It would seem that over time some of the levers have become a little bent over time causing some of the buttons to be no longer perpendicular - so I think it would be a case of trying to bend the levers themselves to restore the buttons to the upright position, as far as I can tell. I think this would be quite a lengthy process involving a lot of trial and error to get the bending just right for each button.

 

Unless I'm missing something!

Edited May 22, 2013 by penthes

[d.elliott]

Hmm, I see now what you mean, a nasty design. I suspect it would be difficult to fit a sleeve as the more common design uses, but I do wonder if it is possible to insert a bit of rubber between the base of the key and the top of the arm, something compressible but can be persuaded to stay in place. By taking up this play between arm and key base the keys will stay more perpendicular to the lever arms and not be able to fall over so easily. Look at B&Q and find something called 'sugru' or search it on the internet first

 

I see that you are in the north east, have you been to see Theo Gibb and show him the issue, see what he can suggest? looking at pictures is not the same as examining hardware.

 

regards

 

Dave

[penthes]

Thanks Dave, I like the Sugru suggestion - that would certainly help for reducing the play, but it would still leave some of the buttons non-perpendicular due to the bending of the levers that seems to have taken place over time, I'm wondering if I can just live with that - as it seems to me that it would be a lengthy process involving a lot of trial and error to bend the levers such that the buttons are all perpendicular. Maybe I'll just try and correct the worst cases.

 

Yes, it probably would be worth letting Theo Gibb take a look next time I'm up around that area.

 

Steve