Hybrid Life Expectancy ?

[Geoff Wooff]

I am thinking of buying my first Hybrid Concertina and I wonder about longevity of these instruments.

Not that I am contemplating the lower end of that market, I ask about people's expériences with the better/best examples.

 

As a person who has only ever owned 'real' ones and found them to be very reliable, ( my current instruments are between 86 and 115 years old) and the youngest of these has been played almost everyday for the last 40 years to my knowledge, I would be pleased with any insights from owners and makers as to reliability of these new fangled devices.

 

I suppose I am tarnished with the old accordion "sure tis worn out, time to buy a new one" syndrome, and the small advertisements I see for accordions second hand " has been tuned recently". However, one Lady we play with, in a band, has her Castagnari accordion for 14 years and plays it a lot and it sounds wonderfull.

 

How might my new Hybrid sound after ten years of Band playing ?

Edited May 17, 2013 by Geoff Wooff

[Wolf Molkentin]

Geoff, I don't know anything about hybrid concertinas. Regarding your accordion-related syndrome I can tell you that hardly any of my internet purchases in that field had turned out rewarding, but I play my Hohner Verdi PA for about 15 years now, and it had experienced frequent playing in the decades before without the reeds ever being touched. Nevertheless it's still in tune and abundantly playable (if I only would like the sound as I had before taking up the EC...).

[Defra]

An interesting question that I have also been pondering. At the high prices of good hybrids, I would be hoping that it would be possible to replace parts and maintain them in the same way as proper vintage concertinas. It's a shame that none of us will still be around in another 100 years to find out how they stand the test of time.

[Anglo-Irishman]

How might my new Hybrid sound after ten years of Band playing ?

 

Well, my Stagi hybrid - 30-button Anglo, metal ends - sounds much as it did when new, after 15 years of band playing and regular practice.

 

Actually, it sounds better, but that's beause I messed up the bellows early on by applying leather balsam and dissolving the glue, and had to get replacement bellows from Concertina Connection. But as far as the reeds go, I wouldn't worry!

 

Cheers,

John

 

Edited for typo

Edited May 17, 2013 by Anglo-Irishman

[Ken_Coles]

I've been pounding away on my Morse Ceili since 2001 and it shows no signs of failure. It is well worn in, which makes it even easier to play than it was at first. Fits me like an old glove too.

 

Whatever works.

 

Ken

[gcoover]

Like with the vintage instruments, it all depends on the maker and the initial quality. Most of the cheap East German Anglo's made in the last century weren't even playable to begin with, and many of the Chinese hybrid models may not last long either. My Herrington is built solid, gets tremendous use, and still looks and plays as new. I'm sure the Morses, Edgleys, AC Normans, Marcus's and other major brands will also fare quite well over time - all are built to a much higher standard than most accordions. As for the cheaper instruments like the Stagis, Bastaris, Gremlins, etc., they are built to a certain price point that pretty much excludes any substantial longevity.

Gary

[Anglo-Irishman]

As for the cheaper instruments like the Stagis, Bastaris, Gremlins, etc., they are built to a certain price point that pretty much excludes any substantial longevity.

 

Well, I can vouch for my Stagi. Which brands have you been playing for 15 years?

 

Cheers,

John

[Graham Collicutt]

One point to consider: screwed in reeds v. waxed in reeds. Do you want to be able to tune reeds etc yourself or leave it to an accordion tech. or learn new skills working on the hidden reed at the back.

 

Graham

[ceemonster]

well-made, well-cared-for accordions will last a good long time, and i don't see any reason why the same wouldn't be true of well-made, well-cared-for accordion-reeded concertinas. now, endurance comparative to "concertina-reeded" instruments, i can't say. but you should get decades, plural, out of it, imho.

 

i see a couple of references to need for re-tuning as if this were a factor in whether the instrument will hold up---i wouldn't view it that way. accordions do have to be re-tuned or fine-tuned every several-few years (sometimes every couple years), and that is normal. so long as the tech is master-level and doesn't shave off too much of the reed the thing will still last and last.

 

having said that, one gauging potential lifespan of an accordion-reeded instrument might also wish to consider reed quality. there is by no means 100% consensus on this, but there is certainly a school of thought holding that factory reeds (even the highest-grade factory reeds such as so-called "super" duralle) do not hold their tuning as well and do not grow more supple and subtle in terms of dynamic expressiveness over time in the same manner as the best handmade or the better TAM reeds. there is another school holding that quality factory reeds are every bit as durableso....(i will say that i've had three different hybrid anglos, and the only one whose tuning went noticeably out was the one with factory reeds--but again, accordions do get tuned every few years.) ...but if it were me, and if the instrument was pricey, as in, over $1200 or $1500, i would want the investment to include premium, best-quality reeds.

 

can't weigh in on the merits of the waxed-in-versus-screwed-in issue. morse and i believe the wakker higher-priced hybrid line are waxed-in. pretty sure AC Norman is screwed, though on the soundboard rather than in pans. Geuns does screwed-in reeds in proper maple pans. Not sure about Marcus. No way Edgeley is waxed, not sure whether his are screwed into pans or onto the board....

Edited May 17, 2013 by ceemonster

[Jim Besser]

How might my new Hybrid sound after ten years of Band playing ?

 

Having owned 4 hybrids and several good vintage instruments over the years, I'd say this: if you're worried about the next 10 years, a good hybrid - my favorites are the Morse and the Edgley - should be as durable, maybe more durable, than most vintage instruments, and without the variability you find in older boxes.

 

If you're thinking 50 or 100 years, who knows? But I can't think of any reason a good hybrid, properly cared for, wouldn't last.

 

Reeds: accordion reeds may require more attention over the years than concertina reeds, but they are also much more easily and inexpensively replaceable.

 

I have 2 Morse concertinas that have been subjected to years of Morris music abuse; neither has ever required any service, so the waxed-in reed issue has never been a problem. And I know that if I needed to swap out a reed, any local accordion shop could do it, and the Button Box isn't on another planet.

 

I owned a Herrington for years, with screwed in reeds; when I wanted to swap out a reed, the late Harold Herrington mailed me one and replacing it was a ten minute operation. I suspect the Herrington, now owned by another c.net member, will last well into the 22nd century

 

The mechanism of a Morse or Edgley (or, I assume, Norman or Marcus) is the equal of most good vintage boxes, maybe better than most and likelier to be trouble free for a long time.

 

ALl of that said, I vastly prefer the sound of a good traditional instrument, especially in the G/D range; the C/Gs sound more concertina-like. But I keep the hybrids because of their durability, their lightness (good for aging tendons) and the fact I can play outside in the rain without having a nervous breakdown.

[ceemonster]

Still prefer concertina reeds for Irish, but only by a nose, since I also like accordion reeds for Irish.

 

 

But I actually prefer the sound of accordion reeds for just about all other dance-derived instrumental world folk genres---tango, French (both Paris bal musette and Auvergne-eque folk), Scandinavian, Eastern-European Rom, klezmer, Balkan, etc.....like a small CBA with a slightly concertina-ish squawk to it, mmmm, mmmm.....

[Chris Timson]

Ah, but nothing beats the honk of a good Jeffries for English music. To get back on topic, my G/D Morse has been my outdoor instrument for a good few years now, which means it gets the mucky jobs like playing for the morris when my Jeffries stays home. Still working fine.

 

CC

[Jim Besser]

Ah, but nothing beats the honk of a good Jeffries for English music. To get back on topic, my G/D Morse has been my outdoor instrument for a good few years now, which means it gets the mucky jobs like playing for the morris when my Jeffries stays home. Still working fine.

 

CC

 

My sentiments exactly.

[Guest mglamb]

.

Edited August 10, 2013 by mglamb

[ceemonster]

[My G/D Jeffries blows my Morse G/D away in terms of both volume and punch]

 

yes, surveying the newly-posted BB video samplers really brought home the "cut" and lung power of the jeffries. i'd just put in, though, a volume/cut-focused compare/contrast with accordion-reeded concertinas brings us again to the issue of which grade, type, brand, of accordion reed is at play...

 

while mileage may vary, the rough rule is that TAM reeds will be brighter and have more "cut" than many (not all) of the factory examples. if you check out youtubes such as the one below of the single-reeded castagnari Lilly, particularly the b/c or c#/d, you'll see what i mean wouldn't be everybody's cup of tea, but it is loud and it cuts.

 

 

 

 

 

accordion-reeded concertinas sound very different depending on what reeds are being used. i recall a poster on this site doing a comparison between his Marcus and his Geuns, with the wood-ended Geuns coming out louder and brighter than the metal-ended Marcus. the metal-ended AC norman anlo is also a bright, cutting example. an earlier-model metal-ended edgeley i heard in a catskills class remains the loudest concertina i have ever encountered, including concertina-reeded examples. don't know if you lose that volume and cut in his professional models, but while there would be those who wouldn't like the one i heard, i thought it would be fantastic for a ceili or dance band. it was at least as loud as an accordion, no exaggeration. i believe some of the herringtons are like this as well.

 

 

 

BB has stated they chose the factory "super durall" reeds in their instruments because they liked a less-bright sound, and that less bright Morse sound definitely has a fan base. this may have something to do with the poster above finding his Morse softer. i like the sound of those reeds as well, but for me wouldn't find it the greatest investment for band and session playing now that the prices are up close to $3,000. i believe they are offering a TAM option of late, but not sure if it's for all models or what.....

 

don't know if the wakker video clips are still up on BB's site now that the Rose and Peacock (TAM reeds) seem not to be in stock, but there was a differnce in the brightness/cut factor in the Rose/Peacock samples versus the Morse. didn't prefer one to the other in terms of aesthetic beauty, but did prefer the brighter sound of the wakkers for band/session work.

 

 

reed frames can also make a difference: brass versus aluminum, for example. that gent sean garvey in ireland who deals in accordions (including his own label) offers a line of accordion-reeded anglo concertinas with, get this, your choice of TAM reeds in brass versus TAM reeds in aluminum. i believe the brass is the brighter one, but not 100% certain......the "Garwood." the samples out there on the 'tube are pretty bright...

http://allaboutaccordions.com/allabout-product.php?parent_id=239

 

there is intel on accordion reed grades and concomitant tone differences on the dancemaster site as well, i believe....

[Geoff Wooff]

Well, that last link , to the Garwood "Dubliner" was interesting Ceemonster. To me this one really sounded like an Accordion !!

[Wolf Molkentin]

Well, that last link , to the Garwood "Dubliner" was interesting Ceemonster. To me this one really sounded like an Accordion !!

 

Geoff, though I agree on the accordion-like element in the sounding of the "Dubliner" Anglo I nevertheless hear a certain "punch", which is not that natural with accordion reeds.

 

Unfortunately the recording is "drowned" in reverberation, which hampers a comparison to the "Peacock" and "Beaumont" models just from listening to the sound files resp. videos.

 

Regarding the durability of accordion reeds I'd dispute the necessity of frequent tuning (and therefore inevitably serious loss of material within a decade or two) from my personal experience.

 

I wish you success with your choice to come!

[Jim Besser]

My G/D Jeffries blows my Morse G/D away in terms of both volume and punch - both of which are critical for playing for dance outdoors. Hell, it also blows my G/D Dipper away, which is why I don't own either Dipper or Morse anymore! In my opinion, you just can't beat the real thing (concertina reeds) for English traditional dance music.

 

I remember when you got that Dipper, and playing it at Nick's farm.

 

THe moment when I decided to seek a Jeffries: sitting outdoors at a pub in London, Ontario with another c.netter He played his Jeffries G/D, I played my Morse. To my ear the Morse sounded louder. But in the real world of Morris dance playing, the sound of my hybrid got lost in the clamor; the Jeffries cut through like a knife. It's not just about volume.