Longer Northeast Squeeze-In?

[Richard Morse]

There's been substantial call to have the NESI be a longer event. Is there enough interested folk to warrant it? How to go about doing it?

 

We can easily extend it further throughout Sunday by making Sunday breakfast (the same time as we did on Saturday) AND have a Sunday lunch. That would make that day's workshops NOT be concurrent with eating time, plus give us the wherewithal to continue into the afternoon. Of course the downside is that those late-night (ahem - *early* morning) types would have to get up earlier or wait until lunch to break their fast.

 

But still it seems like a lot of folk would leave early anyway as they have such a far ways to travel back. I would think that only by having another night for the event will we be able to substantially extend the event. That way we can have another full day for workshops and a lot more time for jamming, networking, socializing. Depending on the numbers of people wanting to start on Thursday evening - or - stay on to over to Monday morning, we may be able to do it.

 

One problem with such an extended time could mean that we would either have to pay a LOT more for the privilege of having the entire place to ourselves (if we didn't fill it) or have to put up with "outsiders" gawking and telling us not to play after 10pm....

 

Another problem is that the Button Box probably couldn't afford to make it any lengthier. We (the Button Box) usually break about even with the event (so long as you don't count the time we put into organizing it). OTOH, we (the Button Box) DO make some money by setting up shop there. But not much as packing/unpacking, cleaning, staffing, driving time, etc. take a lot of employee time (much of which they do like to be PAID for). Well, they *do* get the perk of camping and eating at the event for free....

 

Anyway, I bring this up because it can be the key item. A longer event doesn't make for more sales, only more staff expense. Plus we'd be loosing out on our day traffic at our regular store. I don't mean to make it sound like we're a band of mercenaries... but we all limits to the amount "free" time we fell okay to put towards any endeavor. It's hard to ask anyone to put in a lot of extra hours at their JOB without pay to enable a pleasurable event for other people to happen.

 

In that vein maybe we should look into funding for this thing. Get a grant from some music foundation or such. Maybe even a federal subsidy? Seems like all the festivals I've been to are underwritten in some way. Anyone willing to look into that?

 

I guess when it comes down to it, in order to extend this event, we're going to be needing some help. Squeezebox community help. And information is probably the first step.

 

Suggestions?

[David Barnert]

I voted to keep it as it is. I discussed this with Rich months ago. Sure, I could spend my whole life at the squeeze-in, but after umpteen years I've learned to pace myself and it feels just right. It will happen again the next year.

 

("I've got to go into town to take care of a few things. I'll be right back.")

 

Edited to add: That said, if it started Thursday evening, I'd gladly go for it.

Edited September 25, 2004 by David Barnert

[lildogturpy]

My vote was to keep it as is. I know I've only been to one so I don't have a wealth of experience to base this on but I found the time this last squeeze-in to be about right. I found that there were not a large selection of workshops and so there was no rushing from one place to another or having a conflict. I did find that the workshops I went to were an hour spent that gave me ideas to work on for the next year so that just sitting and playing in a session the rest of the time was fun. Having a full day of activities on the Saturday made that day seem like the main event and the Friday before was a nice get together to get in the mood and the Sunday a nice wind down to play a few tunes and get ready to leave.

[bellowbelle]

(Cool. It worked. I just switched our internet service from Comcast to Verizon DSL! This is my first post since doing that....)

 

Um, I think it would be fun to stay longer on Sunday, but more than 2 nights away from home is too much for me, I think. At least at this time. Husband, dogs, cats, birds, etc.....and then, there's all the dishes stacked in the sink....can't leave them all alone for more than 2 nights/3 long days.

[JimLucas]

I voted no. My reasons are various.

 

Stratification: A little of this already occurs. Some people have to arrive late or leave early, and they accept it. I think it might be harder to accept missing out on an entire day because either you can't get/spare a day off work or you can't afford the extra expense, while others can. Even now, ending early on Sunday sort of evens things out for those who have to travel many hours, and I think that helps the "everybody's equal" spirit that I feel is a major ingredient of the NESI. (Those who can stick around can go to a local session, which I think is a plus for both them and the session, but that's not the Squeeze-In itself, and that's a big psychological difference.)

 

Then there's the issue of whether people registering for the full period should be given preference over those who can't do the additional day. Bad feelings if they are, but higher cost and perhaps reduced participation on that additional day if they're not.

 

Cost: Because not everyone would be able to attend the extra day -- and also due to the altered income/expense ratio for the BB -- the incremental cost for an extra day could be even more of an inhibitor for some people than the issue of taking time off from work (or family).

 

Sharing: On the other hand, the idea of sharing the premises with complete unknowns would make me uncomfortable, both because I'd be concerned as to whether I was bothering them and because I'd worry more about the potential consequences of leaving my instrument(s) lying around.

 

Size: If significantly fewer people attend the additional day, it's flavor would be entirely different. Fewer of both "students" and "teachers", fewer workshops.... In fact, if the additional day were at the beginning, the full workshop schedule couldn't be set up until the next day, anyway.

 

Having a separate day with a radically different structure and feel isn't necessarily a bad thing. In fact, it could be and "added attraction" for those participating. It just needs to be considered in conjunction with the other factors.

 

Grants: No way! First of all, I think you would have trouble finding either a government agency or a corporation (which probably only makes grants that the government allows it to write off as social-benefit contributions) willing to make a grant to an event that benefits such a small group of people. It's not a general-public-invited folk festival, nor does it benefit as many people as Pinewoods Camp or CDSS. (Does CDSS get grants that specifically support Pinewoods?) Probably more important is that The Button Box is a profit-making concern. Grants normally go to officially non-profit enterprises.

 

Well, those are arguments as to why the NESI would be unlikely to get a grant, or why it might at least take more time ("paid" time) to obtain one than the amount of the grant itself. (How big a grant would be needed to reduce the cost of each participant by even $10? Many a university researcher complains about having to spend more time preparing grant applications than doing the research the grants support.) No, the worst is what happens if you do manage to get one or more grants. Then you become dependent on them. Each year you would have to wait on the decisions of the grantors before you could say how many days the NESI would cover, and the grantors' calendars might not be compatible with that for reserving Bucksteep, or for the would-be paritcipants requesting an extra day off from their employers. Better to have some people wishing it were longer, while you maintain full control. Besides, it's never bad to have people wanting more.

 

Alternatives:

... 1) Would there be enough interest to support extra days if they were considered a separate event? I'm thinking a different format, with formal, prearranged classes and instructors, as with varous UK events (e.g., Witney) or the Noel Hill schools. The "school", while officially distinct (and presumably much more expensive) could be held during the week, but contiguous with the NESI for those who would/could attend both. Some European folk festivals have a similar format, a "school" with various classes that runs for 2-4 days before the festival begins. I've participated in the classes before Falun Festival in Sweden. (And at least at Falun, the classes each do a short performance on a small stage at the festival itself.)

... 2) Instead of extending the current NESI, what about running it twice a year, i.e., in both spring and fall? Only Rich can say whether that would be feasible for The Button Box. Only we squeezers can say whether that would dilute attendance to where it would no longer break even, or whether it would instead add to the enthusiasm and participation.

... 3) Extend the NESI by rescheduling it to a 3-day holiday (for Brits: bank holiday) weekend. I don't think this is feasible. Not only is Bucksteep probably not available (at least not at the same price), but "everybody" else plans their special events for these weekends, so there would be severe conflicts. Besides, the Button Box staff might want to take advantage of such a weekend for other purposes.

... 4) Keep things as they are, but proliferate local gatherings. This has already begun to happen, and so far I don't think it has redcuced attendance at the NESI.

 

A last comment: No matter how long it is, it will never be possible to fit into it everything that everybody wants, even if it could be scheduled without conflicts. And no matter how short it is, there will always be a few who will have to miss at least part of it, though willing to pay for the whole thing.

 

As it is, it's wonderful, and there's no need to change it. So I say, keep the wonder as it is.

[Ken_Coles]

For you first-timers, the schedule was a little atypical this year. Because it was so wet (over 3 inches/8 cm rain from that storm) no or few events were held in the tent, big gazebo, on the various lawns, etc. The other four times I've attended there were 5-7 choices in each hour rather than 3. That might affect your impresson.

 

In fact, for five years (I think) a major week-long anglo school was held at Bucksteep just before the SI. It ended (moving to the summer in other locations) due to schedule considerations for the teacher and the desire to hit multiple parts of the country. My own job (teaching) no longer allows me days off in September, but back then it did, and I enjoyed it. There are underserved student markets in the U.S. (I content that playing English Conc. is one of them). Maybe someone other than the BBox should/could step up to pursue this possibility and take the financial chances.

[Animaterra]

This was only my second SI (my first as a player!) and I agree that the weekend is just about long enough- I almost clicked on the "extend to Sunday afternoon" button but decided to go with my gut.

 

Often, the desire for a longer weekend stems from the natural feeling in all of us when something wonderful is drawing to a close- please, don't let it end, not yet! No matter how long something lasts, we want more. But if we actually had more, some would feel it was too long, some wouldn't be able to attend, and the list of problems Jim suggested would grow.

 

The SI, to me, is like that favorite aunt, who only comes to visit once a year- it's just not long enough, so everyone's sad to see her go. If she came around more often, we'd get used to her, and maybe not appreciate her so much.

 

As it is, I'm already looking forward to next year!

 

Thanks to everyone for the great weekend!

 

(edited for typos- as usual!)

Edited September 25, 2004 by Animaterra

[Richard Morse]

Great suggestions and thoughtful insights - keep them coming!

 

Yes, this year we had an unusually light workshop schedule, possibly due to the large number of first-timers this year who were probably hesitant to offer workshops plus several key old-timers were unable to come. Not to mention the torrential rain on Saturday that made the outdoor workshop spots (gazebos, tent, porch) untenable.

 

Yes, the cost of the event is pretty steep (so that's why they call it Bucksteep?) No, seriously.... The place is just about the most affordable we could find in Western MA. Everything out there is pretty pricey because of the proximity to Tanglewood and the various upscale communities. It's only that Bucksteep is a bit too out-there that they can't command those sorts of prices. As it is, the weekend we chose is the least expensive time of year (when they are at their lowest bookings), right between the summer people and the fall leaf-peepers.

 

A second spring event there would be quite a bit more expensive. If there IS to be a second event, it would have a different tenor, most likely at a different place. And the difference would keep the NESI special for what it is.

 

It's interesting talking about the Noel Hill week that used to precede the NESI. Great idea, somewhat different crowd - and surprisingly - little crossover. It makes me think that a second (separate or adjacent time) - yet related - type of event would be a very good thing. The NESI is such a social gathering. A fun time for all. An eye-opener and learning event to be sure, but to a lesser extent and mainly for newbies amongst.

 

Maybe the second event could be more of an intensive learning thing. That's something that I've personally wanted for a long time. Composition and music theory, band dynamics, traditional style nuances.... Certainly there would be time for socializing and jamming, but the focus could be on extending our skills and knowledge. I can see tapping the pro's for leading the workshops (if the skills among us aren't up to that level), like Andy Davis (PA) for theory, George Marshall (EC) for band dynamics, Noel Hill (AC) for Irish style.... I can think of many more appropriate folk for those slots as well as for other possible workshop offerings.

 

Another nice thing about having a "learning" event closer to (our) home is that the Button Box wouldn't be uprooted. If anyone wanted to check out our wares - they can. And without the expense of us going elsewhere.

 

I'm sure that an event like this would have a much smaller turnout so it may have to be held someplace other than Bucksteep. OTOH, if it were to be only a single day long, it could be held at Bucksteep to start Thursday evening (arrivals and socializing) with the "classes" the next morning, maybe only two time slots of 3 hours each which would wind up about the time people started arriving for the main part of the NESI about mid-afternoon?

 

That could be conducive enough for us to keep Bucksteep for ourselves. I really don't like the thought of sharing "our" space, mostly due to distraction reasons, though I hadn't thought of the security issues (I'm glad that was brought up!).

 

There's also the money issue. I know the $120 for the extra day sounds steep, but that's just an estimate (but a good one). People can always camp and bring their own chow which would make being there a LOT less costly. OTOH, If we hire outside workshop teachers....

 

But thinking of this second event as being held in a different place at a different time.... If it were to be here in the Valley (Pioneer Valley), folks could take in our legendary Friday and/or Saturday Greenfield night contradances, and maybe even stay through the Sunday evening Irish session at the Pint? Lots of peripheral possibilities.

[Perry Werner]

Howdy:

 

I'd also love to spend more days in this atmosphere since I spend a lot of my days thinking about playing and everything that goes along with it anyway, but my feeling is that it would be possible but somewhat difficult to spend several days away from home, family and my business. I would consider it though.

 

Here's my suggestion.

Why not start earlier on Friday, like around noon or early afternoon?

Not a big addition but enough for an additional workshop or rehearsal.

 

Seems like this would not add a huge cost to the attendees or The Button Box. No?

 

Maybe not even include a lunch on Friday afternoon, but arrival right after lunchtime and have a somewhat more casual check-in

 

My personal experience, especially being a first timer, was a bit of disorientation when I arrived.

I felt a bit rushed and confused as I saw many people already playing and seemingly settled in.

Of course I could have arrived earlier.

 

All in all things seemed very rushed and crammed into a very short period.

 

I just this morning read the schedule which I still have and noticed that there was an orientation for the newly arrived at 6:30pm on Friday. I did not read the schedule closely upon arrival, since I was so unsettled by my trip up and from getting lost in the driving rain after I missed the Belden Tavern turn off. (By the way, I never saw the tavern, only a sign. Was that the tavern in the big gray looking house?. I think I went about 20 miles out of the way coming up Route 8!).

 

The truth is I did feel somewhat disoriented during the weekend and I'm sure a lot of that was due to the fact that I slept very poorly both nights and felt really knocked out during most of the weekend, but that was my own doing (Am I wrong to surmise that since sleep was not on the schedule, that I was the only one to catch a few winks ? and I mean a few!). I'm sure a lot of this had to do with a bit of anxiety as well as the sessions which took place right outside my bedroom door until what seemed like sunrise and then right after sunrise. Most of the time I was thinking, "How do these people do it?". I'm guessing that next year I'll feel more at home as I'm now well seasoned. I hope. Also, hopefully next year I'll feel more comfortable with the sessions and will also go until I see the sun comes up.

 

Also at most of these weekend events that I've attended in various shapes and forms, I usually feel that after breakfast on the Sunday morning I switch into leaving mode with some sadness accompanying that and I kind of want to get going. My mind is not really on the event any longer.

 

Anyway, that's my suggestion.

 

Extend Friday earlier into the day!!!!!

Edited September 26, 2004 by Perry Werner

[JimLucas]

(edited for typos- as usual!)

Thank you. I wish more people would do that.

[Jim Besser]

I like Perry's suggestion: extend Friday a bit. An extra afternoon would be just about right. It would be a little harder for those of us driving long distances, but worth it (I'd probably come up the night before, stay somewhere close by, get to the SI site a little less tired than I was last friday, after driving almost 500 miles)

[JimLucas]

I know the $120 for the extra day sounds steep, but that's just an estimate (but a good one). People can always camp and bring their own chow which would make being there a LOT less costly. OTOH, If we hire outside workshop teachers....

People who camp and bring their own chow could raise the average price if Bucksteep weren't filled on the added day(s), no? In fact, I was assuming the $120 additional for an additional day was a sort of average... with some lower, but some higher, based on the different levels of accomodation.

 

I'm sure that [a more formal teaching event] would have a much smaller turnout so it may have to be held someplace other than Bucksteep. OTOH, if it were to be only a single day long, it could be held at Bucksteep to start Thursday evening (arrivals and socializing) with the "classes" the next morning, maybe only two time slots of 3 hours each which would wind up about the time people started arriving for the main part of the NESI about mid-afternoon?

I think having such an event only a single day long would be a mistake for multiple reasons.

 

One would be compensation for teachers who have to travel. Both the time and money involved would have to be distributed over the number of days spent teaching. So fewer days translates into greater cost per day

 

Related economics come into play for attendees. Long-distance travel costs wouldn't be worth it for a 1-day "school", unless the NESI is included. But a three-day school might attract folks who aren't interested in the NESI itself.

 

But I also think that a single day would be too short a time to accomplish anything substantial. I think that would be true even if the teachers and students were all quite clear in advance about the both the teaching aims and ability levels involved, but there's no common standard for judging ability, and many people have more specific ideas of what they want to learn than what they are able to express. (E.g., one person who says "song accompaniment on the anglo" may have in mind John Kirkpatrick, another Andy Turner, another John Roberts, and another Brian Peters.) The first 3-hour session will likely be consumed by teacher and students all getting to know each other and figure out what to teach and at what level(s), and even the teacher may need to compromise significantly.

 

I personally found the 3-day workshops at Falun, with split sessions both morning and afternoon, to be an excellent length. More time might have been OK; less would not have.

[JimLucas]

I like Perry's suggestion: extend Friday a bit.  An extra afternoon would be just about right. It would be a little harder for those of us driving long distances, but worth it (I'd probably come up the night before, stay somewhere close by, get to the SI site a little less tired than I was last friday, after driving almost 500 miles)

As usual, what's better for some people isn't for others.

 

For some of those already taking Friday off in order to travel to the NESI, starting earlier on Friday may sound wonderful, but for the "locals" who come up/down/across after work, it would mean a change to taking a day off. Even the BB staff would have to start their packing half a day earlier. (If extended on the other end, they could let unopened boxes lie around temporarily on their return, if need be.) And for those already spending a full day travelling, it would mean either taking another day off work or arriving half a day "late".

[David Barnert]

I would think the innkeepers would rather we didn't descend on the place until 3:00 on whatever day it started. "Check in time" and all that. Even if we agreed not to ask for room keys until 3:00 it might be difficult on them.

[Perry Werner]

Well how about getting there earlier on Friday and having a session at The Belden Tavern (wherever it is) just to get things going before descending on Bucksteep?

 

That would also help us (uh-humm), who might lose their way to The Manor!

 

The folks at The Belden might welcome the business that it might bring in early on a Friday and they could advertise it as an event.

 

I can see it now.

We can call ourselves

 

"The (Soon To Be) Lost Weekend Squeezers"

[Doug Anderson]

Some of us who attend the NESI are accompanied by a SO who is not a squeezebox player. Cynthia usually connects with other squeezebox widows/widowers and has a good time, but I have a feeling I'd be pushing my luck with a longer event.

[Richard Morse]

People who camp and bring their own chow could raise the average price if Bucksteep weren't filled on the added day(s), no?  In fact, I was assuming the $120 additional for an additional day was a sort of average... with some lower, but some higher, based on the different levels of accomodation.

One thing that would raise the general price is if we *didn't* fill the rooms. OTOH, the more folks the less everying will cost as some non-room items costs would be spread out over more folks (the barn is $900/day!). And yes, the room prices vary though we work out a deal with Bucksteep for all of them and then make them an average of whatever for event goers. Much easier on us!

 

I think having such an event only a single day long would be a mistake for multiple reasons.

 

One would be compensation for teachers who have to travel.... Related economics come into play for attendees.... But I also think that a single day would be too short a time....

 

I personally found the 3-day workshops at Falun, with split sessions both morning and afternoon, to be an excellent length.  More time might have been OK; less would not have.

 

Great points! I too would prefer several days to just a day's extension to the NESI (which can be a separate issue on it's own merrits). Makes me lean towards a serious several days before the NESI or a separate multiple-day event maybe in the spring?

[Richard Morse]

I would think the innkeepers would rather we didn't descend on the place until 3:00 on whatever day it started. "Check in time" and all that. Even if we agreed not to ask for room keys until 3:00 it might be difficult on them.

Yes, their timing is that they'd like all guests out of their rooms by 11:00 and new ones not in until after 3:00 (mainly for cleaning purposes) though we've worked out a deal with BS so that folks need not yield their rooms until 3pm on Sunday.

 

Getting started earlier on Friday is a great idea, and perhaps (depending upon BS's occupancy and staffing, we could start the event at noon? The Button Box could also probably manage that. That may entice locals to take the day off and further-flungs to head up earlier?