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Holst's Jupiter


tzirtzi
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I came across this very nice arrangement of one of the melodies from Jupiter from the Planets for guitar, which seems quite playable on concertina.

 

Playing it, though, I find a lot of the chords rather a lot clashier than I feel they should be - much more so than they sound on the guitar. I wondered whether anyone might have any general advice on what changes to make from guitar to concertina arrangements?

 

It is, of course, possible that my concertina is just out of tune... :/

post-7186-0-18825900-1364399581_thumb.gif

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I had a quick try at this piece last night and I can see what you mean about certain chords being 'clashier'. The same thing can happen when taking a piece that has been arranged for Piano. The direct sound of Concertina reeds can be the cause of harsh sounding chords, especially when the instrument is tuned in Equal Temperament, or when it is tuned ET but not quite perfectly.

I then played the piece without following this arrangement but put in my own chords, by ear, and thus avoided the clashes. So, my suggestion is to look at it in detail by playing the chord and then removing one note at a time to see if you can alleviate the problem sound without radically changing the arrangement...

 

Sorry , I do not have a simple answer but I can see that one might want to re-arrange this setting somewhat to make it more comfortable to play on a Concertina and therefore a slight thinning out of the chords might kill two birds with one stone.

 

Geoff.

Edited by Geoff Wooff
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  • 2 weeks later...

I had a quick try at this piece last night and I can see what you mean about certain chords being 'clashier'. The same thing can happen when taking a piece that has been arranged for Piano. The direct sound of Concertina reeds can be the cause of harsh sounding chords, especially when the instrument is tuned in Equal Temperament, or when it is tuned ET but not quite perfectly.

I then played the piece without following this arrangement but put in my own chords, by ear, and thus avoided the clashes. So, my suggestion is to look at it in detail by playing the chord and then removing one note at a time to see if you can alleviate the problem sound without radically changing the arrangement...

 

Sorry , I do not have a simple answer but I can see that one might want to re-arrange this setting somewhat to make it more comfortable to play on a Concertina and therefore a slight thinning out of the chords might kill two birds with one stone.

 

Geoff.

 

 

The bass line offers some good clues to the pass through chording. Using this can offer some other details to playing the piece.

 

rss

 

Thank you both for your replies (and sorry for my own slowness in replying!) I'm glad it's not just my perception (or my concertina) that might hear a problem here. I'll go through the piece and experiment cutting down each chord to something a little more easily playable--hopefully they'll then turn out to be easier on the ear, too. If case anyone's interested, I might post what I end up with when I'm happy with it :)

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Thank you both for your replies (and sorry for my own slowness in replying!) I'm glad it's not just my perception (or my concertina) that might hear a problem here. I'll go through the piece and experiment cutting down each chord to something a little more easily playable--hopefully they'll then turn out to be easier on the ear, too. If case anyone's interested, I might post what I end up with when I'm happy with it :)

 

I look forward to your post of a 'when I am happy with it' recording!

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I m in the process of trying to record my version of the tune of the month.... trying trying... works well enough when the machine is turned off but that blasted Red light... aahhhhggggg! So, yes when you are happy perhaps the rest of the world will also be.

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It is interesting to note that when Holst's "The Planets" was introduced in concert the conductor decided to only play 4 or 5 of the movements (I've forgotten which) because, he said, the harmonic approach was so very different the audience would not be willing to accept it for longer. On the other hand, what you have here is the tune Holst borrowed from himself for the hymn "I Vow To Thee My Country" which I think he reharmonized in more commonly acceptable manner. So...have at it. But give the original a listen too. I think you'll hear some things that are missing from the arrangement above.

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It is interesting to note that when Holst's "The Planets" was introduced in concert the conductor decided to only play 4 or 5 of the movements (I've forgotten which) because, he said, the harmonic approach was so very different the audience would not be willing to accept it for longer. On the other hand, what you have here is the tune Holst borrowed from himself for the hymn "I Vow To Thee My Country" which I think he reharmonized in more commonly acceptable manner. So...have at it. But give the original a listen too. I think you'll hear some things that are missing from the arrangement above.

And, of course, Holst was sorry afterwards that he had adulterated his wonderfull theme to make a mere hymn . I feel that was a shame because it has made a beautifull 'Anthem' which is loved by a lot of people.

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And, of course, Holst was sorry afterwards that he had adulterated his wonderfull theme to make a mere hymn . I feel that was a shame because it has made a beautifull 'Anthem' which is loved by a lot of people.

 

 

Geoff,

I quite agree! It does make a beautiul anthem.

 

However, comparing a song that uses just one theme from a symphonic work with the symphonic work itself is not just comparing apples and pears - it's more like comparing an apple with a four-course dinner!

A good apple can be delicious, of course, and one a day keeps the doctor away, but what we expect from it is a harmonious, appl-y taste. The attraction of a good dinner, by contrast, lies in the often surprising juxtapositions of sweet and savoury, fish, meat and vegetables, and imaginative use of herbs and spices.

 

I sometimes think that, as a singer with a concertian or banjo, I'm more an apple-grower than a cordon-bleu chef - but I like my apples to be ripe and tasty, so that people enjoy them. Between meals, so to speak!

 

Cheers,

John

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  • 1 month later...

I hope I'm not out of place but as you will son the Abc Notation I'm not that young but very enthusisastic,

I hope that will give you or other's some hope at using classical music is not too difficult if you keep if KISS

(Keep It Simple Stupid) because of my age and disability I have to.

 

Below the Abc Hope it works

 

Regards Dave

 

X:1
T:I Vow To Thee My Country
T: Also Jupiter From Holst The Planets
C: Gustav Holst (1874-1934 )
C: Messed About By An Arthritic EC Player
C: Dave Jackson 67yrs
M:3/4
L:1/8
Q:90
K:Gm
z2 z2 (DF)|G3 _B AF|(_Bc) _B2 A2|(GA) G2 F2|D4 (DF)|G3 _B AF|(_Bc) d2d2|(dc) _B2 c2|
_B4 (FD)|C3 C _B,D|C2 F2 (FD)|C3 C DF|G4 (GA)|_B A2 G2|F2 _B2 F2|C_B, (C2 D2)|
F4 (DF) | G3 _B AF|_Bc B2 A2|(GA G2) F2|D4 (DF)|G3 _B AF|(_Bc d) |(dc _B2) c2|_B4 z2:|
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Some abc hints:

 

  • You don't have to notate the Bb's if it's covered in the key signature. Just type a B, it will appear as a B, and the musician (and the computer) will know from the key signature to play it as flat.
  • Count the beats in measures 14 and 22.
  • If you want the repeat to work as intended, leave out the rests at the beginning and end. Or just leave out the repeat. Or both.

Might I suggest:

X:1
T:I Vow To Thee My Country
T: Also Jupiter From Holst The Planets
C: Gustav Holst (1874-1934 )
C: Messed About By An Arthritic EC Player
C: Dave Jackson 67yrs
M:3/4
L:1/8
Q:90
K:Gm
(DF)|\
G3B AF|(Bc) B2A2|(GA) G2F2|D4 (DF)|\
G3B AF|(Bc) d2d2|(dc) B2c2|B4 (FD)|
C3C B,D|C2F2(FD)|C3C DF|G4 (GA)|\
B>B A2G2|F2B2F2|CB, (C2D2)|F4 (DF)|
G3B AF|Bc B2A2|(GA G2) F2|D4 (DF)|\
G3B AF|(Bc) d2d2|(dc B2) c2|B4|]
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Thank's Mr Barnert.

 

The reason I showed B flat is because I do have quite severe arthritus in my hands especially left hand I always shown any accidentals so that my brain can try to get those third fingers working.

 

Hope the explanation is acceptable

 

Dave

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