Taking Music On Stage

[JimLucas]

re: the memory problem. . . . . . . .if the best string quartets in the world can have music and music stands on stage. . . . . . . .if the truly spectacular second quartet directed by Astor Piazzolla never went out on stage without music. . . . . . .if the metropolitan opera (and most other first-class opera houses) can have a prompter beneath a canopy at the front of the stage. . . . . . . . .

 

WHY SHOULD'NOT YOU HAVE MUSIC IN FRONT OF YOU................WHY SHOULDN'T ANYONE HAVE MUSIC IN FRONT OF THEM. . . . . . .is it a matter of what you or the group LOOKS LIKE. . . . . . .as i've said in other contexts: you're making music, not posing for a sculptor...................

A good question, Allan, and since you asked, I'll propose some answers.

I don't believe that it's inherently wrong to take music on stage, but I do think that there are number of reasons why it can be a bad idea in various contexts.

 

.. 1) The first reason is simply cultural expectation, which can be a very powerful constraint. The use of printed music is accepted in "classical" concerts not because the audiences are unprejudiced, but because the use of printed music is what their prejudices expect. Many of them have other prejudices which are unrelated to the music itself, though some of these have been overcome by the concerted (yeah, I know it's a pun) efforts of individual performers. Pianist Peter Serkin, for instance, when he first appeared performing in a silk shirt rather than a tux could hardly have caused greater furor if he had tried appearing naked, and I understand that early in his career a number of concert halls refused to book him specifically because of his dress. Then there's the story of Harry Belafonte being refused entry to an upscale club where he'd been hired to play, because he was wearing a shirt with an "open collar". Is a prejudice against bluegrass or Irish musicians sitting in chairs and reading from music all that different? In the end, they both seem to be questions of appearance, not music.

 

.. 2) A second reason could be contextual inconvenience. Certain comic movie scenes to the contrary, one does not expect to see cellos, string basses, chairs, or music stands in a marching band... because it's impractical. To a lesser extent, the same can be true of a Morris tour. While the musicians may not move around during a stand, it can still be a serious inconvenience to cart music and music stand -- and possibly a chair -- along with the instrument(s) from stand to stand, especially if it's done with a processional dance. Then there's the problem of keeping the music stationary on a windy day.

 

The question of whether it's appropriate to use music in a "session" has been debated elsewhere. Here I'll just say that at the sessions I normally attend there's neither space available on the floor for even one music stand nor space on the tables for music. And if there were, there's still not enough light to read by, so anyone who depends on reading music is out of luck.

 

It can also be a very personal decision how much "equipment" a person wants to take along to a gig. Some groups and even individuals carry an entire van load of sound equipment, compared to which a music stand or even a chair might be insignificant. While I often carry a small shoulder bag containing miscellaneous small items and additional whistles, I've been known to arrive at a gig with nothing more than my concertina case and a whistle tucked into my belt (well, the clothes, too). I really enjoy the feeling of freedom I get from being un-burdened.

 

.. 3) If you're already able to get by without music some of the time, e.g., for reasons of contextual inconvenience, you could still use music at other times. But many people find that once they're able to "do without", carrying the music and music stand becomes an unnecessary burden. Not everyone, of course. And context can be a powerful influence in other ways, too. I'm reminded of a Swedish fiddler/violinist, equally comfortable playing both "classical" and "traditional" music. But she said she had never played the classical repertoire without written music, yet it had never even occurred to her to play the traditional tunes with written music.

 

.. 4) But the main argument against using "the notes" in performance is that it's not a "solution". Written music can be helpful, but how helpful, indifferent, or even harmful depends a great deal on the experience of the person trying to use it, and that is what I want to address next.

 

... 4a) For someone who can't read music at all, printed music is worthless.

 

... 4b) For someone who can read music poorly, it may be helpful as a practice aid, but probably not as a performance aid. Why?

 

.... 4b-i) If they're continuously following along the music, it's probably just a memory aid, its familiar appearance helping them to remember what they've already "learned". They're not really able "read" the music at that speed. And if they suddenly become unsure of what they're "reading" or how it translates to their fingers, it can become an additional source of confusion, rather than a help. Meanwhile, if they're a poor music reader, just keeping track of where they are in the printed music may be a struggle which distracts them from the emotional expression of the music and from coordinating with the other musicians (if they're not performing solo).

 

.... 4b-ii) If they aren't following along continuously, but just glance at the paper when they can't remember a particular part of the tune, they first have to find the right place on the paper, which means they have to recognize that it is the right place in the music; then they have to decipher what it "says", or at least have its familiar shape remind them of the musical phrase they had forgotten... but by then it's probably way too late.

 

... 4c) For someone who can read music reasonably well, having the music in front of them may indeed be a useful memory aid. The extent of its benefit varies from individual to individual, and is often affected by contextual factors, as well. But it's a common problem that performers with less than complete fluency in reading music neglect musical expression and communication with other musicians when they read. That's not their intention, but if they need to consiciously focus their attention on reading the music, it's quite likely to happen.

 

... 4d) Finally we come to those who are completely fluent in reading music. These are the individuals who can sight read up to tempo and with full expression.

 

.... 4d-i) If they already use written music in performance, we might consider that nothing more need be said. But how do they use it? Is the music just to stimulate their memory of the music, or are they actually reading it "afresh"? If the latter, does that interfere with their attention to the other musicians? If the former, will it throw them if they're given a different edtiion of the music, with a different number of measures per line so that when they look down at the paper they'll be looking in the wrong place? Those are really questions, not claims. But they're questions worth considering separately for each individual.

 

.... 4d-ii) If they don't already use music in performance, then they probably don't need it, but might consider other factors in deciding whether to use it. E.g., they might use it if they're performing with others who use it, but not when they're with musicians who don't read music.

 

.. 5) An "obvious" question might be, is it worth learning to read music to a 4d or even 4c level if you're currently at a lower level, so that you can use it to improve your performing? And my answer is NO.

 

I do think that reading music is a valuable skill, and well worth developing, but more for learning music than as a performance aid. Whether the music is baroque, Irish traditional, or heavy metal, you learn the nuances by listening to others perform it. Then for pieces you don't have recorded, you can use written music as a famework to which you can add the nuances from your own experience.

 

As you gain experience with reading music, you may eventually reach a level where you can use it as a performing aid, but even if you concentrate on that as a goal it will probably take years to reach that level. If you're aiming for immediate -- or at least fairly rapid -- improvement in resisting distractions or in other aspects of performing, I think you'll find other approaches to be more effective in the short term.

 

---------------

 

OK, Allan and others... what do you think?

[Ivan Viehoff]

In the second half of the concert I performed in last night, Tasmin Little (perhaps Britain's finest violinist) played Beethoven's Violin Concerto. She performed from memory, accompanied by the Orchestra of St John's who played with scores.

 

The big difference between a trad band and a classical orchestra is that the latter is playing a great diversity of repertoire, which they just do not have the time to learn, and which they play well enough on limited rehearsal. You would get a still better performance from them if they did have it from memory, because having to read the score does get in the way of interpretation however good you are. But generally promoters aren't willing to pay an orchestra for that amount of rehearsal for one (or a small number of) performance(s). A trad band, on the other hand, gives many repeat performances of the same stuff, and so gets the rehearsal time to get it from memory.

 

As for the soloist, I want to hear a soloist who knows the piece so well that she can play it all from memory. We (the audience, via the promoter) pay her a lot of money, so we are indirectly paying for the rehearsal time. And learning a 50 minute Beethoven Concerto from memory is a lot harder than getting a few session tunes with simple chords from memory! She has the advantage that, unlike the orchestra, and more like the trad band, she will do a lot of repeat performances - with different orchestras and in different halls. A soloist such as her will have a fairly small number of concertos in her repertoire at any one time, and do a sufficient number of repeat performances to justify the many, many hours of getting it from memory.

 

Another difference between the trad band and score-reading performers is the nature of the music. For example last night, we in the choir sang from scores, as we usually do. We can sing pretty well from sight if it is a conventional tune with a straightforward harmony, and no doubt I could learn to sing such a piece from memory fairly quickly if someone forced me, though in reality if we were doing such music we would just have less rehearsal, as rehearsal costs. However the stuff (Arvo Part, etc) we were doing last night was another matter. Ever changing bar lengths, ever changing phrase lengths, phrases that were almost but not quite like the last one, strange harmonies, entries here there and everywhere, in fact almost no structure to hang your memories on. And hard enough to sing it right, let alone remember all the note lengths and entries. And the words of one of the pieces, which included a list of about 60 unusual biblical names, would be a serious test of a professional actor's memory.

 

Having come from a performance tradition where you are "expected" to have the score, unless you are the brilliant soloist (which I am not, nowhere near), I have found the score has become a crutch. Even pieces I think I know backwards, I can barely remember the second bar without the score. Playing the piano with my nose in the score, my fingers subconsciously know where to go, but if you take the score away, my brain does not consciously know where to send my fingers, and the sight of my fingers actually puts me off. It's like typing - my fingers subconsciously know where to find the letter K, but if I have to think about it, my brain does not consciously know where it is - I have to look for it with my eyes, which is a lot slower.

 

The score has become such an essential crutch I couldn't even play Happy Birthday on a bare piano (or concertina) until I wrote it out on a score. I must embarrassedly tell you I couldn't get it quite right on a score for a few days - until finally it dawned on me that it starts on the dominant (ie Happy Birthday starting on a C is in F-major, and therefore has B-flats on the way - probably obvious to all you, but for someone used to seeing these things written down, my ear isn't very hot at picking these things up.)

 

One reason for taking up the concertina this year was to challenge my nose-in-the-score approach to music. I feel I ought to be able to work out how a simple diatonic tune goes and to put a few basic chords under it without too much effort. So far I'm not doing very well at all, though I have nearly got Happy Birthday...

[Tina]

Good topic ... here is my two cents (€).

 

Written music on the one hand for me is the cheapest source available in a place where there are hardly any sessions (still need other sources, too!). Sometimes I take the O'Neills or another and read and play in thoughts and listen, which is nice, and if the tune sounds interesting I take the instrument as a help. And if it is still nice, I play it often enough - until it resounds in my head the next morning - and from here I slowly start to play it by heart. Which does not mean I will keep them forever - so to find them back some day much later is nice, too.

 

There have been times I found myself staring at tiny dots, reading music while playing though my eyes are way too bad to accurately recognize whatever dots, specially in a dim light. But many musicians (talking about irish folk now) who use music refer to the psychological effect that helps them to focus, while they just don't dare to break with a dear habit. Part of that habit is to not be willing to change it. But I still think it is not too hard to play without music if you truly want ... yeah a jump into cold water but a real satisfying one. If so, you gotta do all the practising on rehearsals this way, too.

 

And yes it can keep one from expressing, and from interacting with the others on stage as much as with the audience. Giving attention to the music, organizing it, turning pages, picking up loose papers from the floor, finding you forgot some ... it all keeps from interacting in that very time and be it even just kinda passive interaction or 'awareness'. And no, it doesn't really look good either. And YES it is impractical. You could invest the same energy you spend with organizing all your music just into trying it the other way.

 

With that said ... I wonder what the other's opinions and experiences are. Gotta run now have a nice day everybody

[JimLucas]

Giving attention to the music, organizing it, turning pages, picking up loose papers from the floor, finding you forgot some ...

That reminds me of a particular incident: I "never" use written music when performing traditional stuff, but I often use it when doing classical pieces, even if the rest of the program is done without. Well, a friend and I used to do a variety of styles, including a few of classical numbers, and one of those was a Purcell canon, with her on keyboard and me on concertina. One time I clearly didn't pay enough attention when putting the music on the stand, because when I reached the second page, I discovered it was upside down! I fell apart. I apologized and explained the problem; the audience had a good laugh; and we started again from the beginning. (That should be a sheepish grin.)

[David Barnert]

I just found this thread after posting my response on the "Performance Problems" thread (where this one started). Perhaps it might have been more appropriate here, although it duplicates some of what Jim and Ivan have already said.

[Guest Guest_Robert Booth]

"Whether the music is...heavy metal, you learn the nuances by listening to it..."

 

Heavy metal has nuances? Who knew?

[Stephen Mills]

"Whether the music is...heavy metal, you learn the nuances by listening to it..."

 

Heavy metal has nuances?  Who knew?

Yeah, they're on that 3-position switch on the amplifier, next to the volume control.

[JimLucas]

"Whether the music is...heavy metal, you learn the nuances by listening to it..."

Heavy metal has nuances?  Who knew?

Yeah, they're on that 3-position switch on the amplifier, next to the volume control.

Hmm. Are you the same guys who think all Irish music sounds the same, and that there are only two Morris dances... the hanky dance and the stick dance?

[geoffwright]

I think the worst thing about taking music on stage (especially for concertina/accordion players etc.) is that people hide behind the music. We want to see you playing your instrument, not your instrument appearing either side of the music.

So in future, arrange your music stand to one side or low enough so the audience can actually see what you are playing. There is nothing looks worse than a band of stands.

[wes williams]

This is a subject that has gone round and round for years, so I'll quote Pat Robson from a 1985 ICA letter:

 

Heartfelt or Hearty?

At the Festival, our President (Kenneth Loveless) criticised our Folk Dance players for using music and averred that doing so prevented them from playing from the heart. I seem to remember that in the 1930s the famous dance bands of the time, from Ambrose and Lew Stone, Hylton and Payne, to Duke Ellington and Benny Goodman are all shown in their photos with music stands in front of the players. Maybe they were just decorative? The local provincial bands, to whom I danced a lot, certainly used them and played from music, even for numbers they

must have known by heart. The buskers used no music - they couldn't read it - and neither did some jazz-bands but these improvised, on a fixed chord sequence. As a keen ballroom dancer I preferred the musicians to the buskers every day ( or evening). Perhaps today's Folk bands are better than the music of that 'Golden Era'.

 

I cannot quite see how it is impossible to play from the heart if one uses music. One can read poetry from the heart, and what is music but poetry expressed through one's instrument instead of the voice?

 

Like the printed word, one reads music well in advance of uttering it. I once met someone who had turned the pages for the celebrated concert organist, Susi Jeans, who warned him that she was used to reading about twenty bars ahead of what she was playing.

 

Concert soloists with limited repertoires can play from memory but over-rehearsal gives stale performances, just as familiarity breeds contempt. Choirs, string quartets, orchestras and conductors play from music and I have heard some very moving performances that have come from the heart.

 

Our president's remarks may well hold good for the limited world of the Morris but this is but an infinitesimal part of the international Folk dance scene that is getting known known in the Folk world today.

 

I only wish that I could read music faster. But then, the only musical training that

I ever had was as a choirboy until my voice broke. I was therefore delighted by the

constructive criticism from Mr Ivor Beynon, the Festival Adjudicator.

 

Pat Robson

[JimLucas]

Like the printed word, one reads music well in advance of uttering it.

Some do; some don't. And the results vary considerably.

 

I'll just rephrase what I think I already said: Imitating what is done by someone who is successful does not guarantee that you will be equally successful. A major reason is that what they are doing is an integration of many subtle details, most of which you probably aren't even aware of, much less able to reproduce as an integrated whole. E.g., many classical musicians *can* read -- even sight read -- from music and still maintain awareness of emotion, phrasing, the conductor, and other musicians. But they have spent *years* developing this skill. Many other individuals who read music quite skillfully not only don't have that peripheral awareness, it hasn't occurred to them that they should. If and when they decide that it's a separate skill and one worth having, they still won't have it, and it could still take them years of effort to develop it. In fact, if they to concentrate on the emotional phrasing, they may suddenly find themselves unable to *read* the music.

 

I've seen Alistair Anderson dance a rant step while playing a rant tune on his concertina. I've tried to imitiate him, so far unsuccessfully. With enough practice, I'm sure I could succeed, but I'm not ready to spend *that* much time on that particular skill.

[David Barnert]

I seem to remember that in the 1930s the famous dance bands of the time, from Ambrose and Lew Stone, Hylton and Payne, to Duke Ellington and Benny Goodman are all shown in their photos with music stands in front of the players.

Yes, but (like my string quartet) they were playing carefully worked out arrangements that required each member of the ensemble to play something different at the same time for the total effect. The printed music we're talking about here is just a lead sheet with the melody and chords. If the total effect is to be anything more than everyone playing the same tune over and over, some improvising is going to have to be done.

[bill_mchale]

I just found this thread and would like to add my own thoughts...

 

1. I am a little offended at the notion that somehow it is easier to play Trad music from memory than it is classical. While I am sure that it is no mean feat for a soloist to learn a concerto and play it from memory but the best ITM players I know don't just know a few session tunes (I know a few session tunes) they know thousands of tunes. While the melodies might be simpler than a classical piece, they could play for days without needing to repeat a tune. A number of them are trained in classical music and just perfer ITM.

 

2. There are a couple of reasons not to take music on stage.

a. The stands get between you and the audience and other musicians. I know the audience appreciates it when they can see you and I know I can better match what is played when I can see what other musicians are doing.

b. It limits spontenaity. Ok, this is not Jazz, but there is room for slightly different variations and of course sometimes whoever is leading the band will just choose tunes in the set as he goes along. I know at one session I go to, about 2/3s of the people use sheet music; their music is more boring (Likely to be played with needless speed to "jazz it up") and most of them completely lack the ability to even recognize a tune they play every week if it is not announced before it is played. In contrast, at the other sessions I go to, you never know what tune is next and we just have to keep up

[Samantha]

[snip] ...

b. It limits spontenaity.  [snip] I know at one session I go to, about 2/3s of the people use sheet music; their music is more boring (Likely to be played with needless speed to "jazz it up") and most of them completely lack the ability to even recognize a tune they play every week if it is not announced before it is played.  [snip]

What you describe is an effect of the instrument players' abilities or inabilities, not an effect of the presence of music stands.

Samantha

[JimLucas]

What you describe is an effect of the instrument players' abilities or inabilities, not an effect of the presence of music stands.

But the presence of music stands affects players' abilities, no?

[bill_mchale]

[snip] ...

b. It limits spontenaity.  [snip] I know at one session I go to, about 2/3s of the people use sheet music; their music is more boring (Likely to be played with needless speed to "jazz it up") and most of them completely lack the ability to even recognize a tune they play every week if it is not announced before it is played.  [snip]

What you describe is an effect of the instrument players' abilities or inabilities, not an effect of the presence of music stands.

Samantha

Actually what I am suggesting is that those who rely on music stands when they play are to a certain extent limiting their own abilities. Even people who are relative beginners compared to some of the people who only play with music are better at picking up the tune that someone else starts with out having to be told the name of the tune.

[geoffwright]

I once met someone who had turned the pages for the celebrated concert organist, Susi Jeans, who warned him that she was used to reading about twenty bars ahead of what she was playing

I was turning pages for a long-retired cathedral organist who is still alive so shall remain nameless (clue FJ). Half way down th page, he said turn over, then, continuing playing, he said "Isn't it clever when you can do that?".

Clever git.

 

If you take your music on stage, you never see the audiences reaction. If you take your music into the pub, you take up too much room and again, there is no eye-contact. You also miss the funny bits.

[bellowbelle]

Hm, well, glancing over this thread (shall read more after getting some sleep), I see that I must 1) design a really incredible music stand that people will love to gaze at, and 2) try to explain the 'Joy Of Notebooks' (...meaning, it's FUN to take some of my music along, wherever!).

 

I really DO need some serious sleep, so I will have to post again later.

 

Ideally, I'd like to not have to really look at my written music/scribbles, but, I also like to free my head from having to remember everything all the time, so I like a visual guide. And, as I add more and more to my various song collections, I am increasingly glad that I have organized binders for them.

 

Of course, 25 years ago, I did not enjoy obsessing over my notebooks. Now, I do!

 

Goodnight...zzzz