Not An Anglo?

[griffinga]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LACHENAL-Co-CONCERTINA-IN-WOODEN-BOX-STUNNING-/150986755721?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

[Guest mglamb]

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Edited August 10, 2013 by mglamb

[David Barnert]

Not that the seller even knows what an Anglo is.

 

Not an Angelo, either (at least he got that right).

[Ivan Viehoff]

It's a 39-key Maccann, which is only slightly more useful than a chocolate teapot. He's actually got 8 bids up to £200. Do you think someone would pay that to cannibalise the reeds?

[JimLucas]

It's a 39-key Maccann, which is only slightly more useful than a chocolate teapot.

 

Hey, you could pour your hot chocolate into your cup, pot and all.

 

Or how about a chocolate-covered manhole cover?

 

But seriously, with 30 % more notes than the Elise Hayden duet from Concertina Connection, including G#'s and D#'s, I'd say it's at least as useful and should be worth at least as much if it's in good condition. More, since it's a Lachenal, with typical "vintage" construction and "concertina-type" reeds. It's also smaller, and I suspect lighter. And though there aren't any internal pictures, the external appearance and that of the case suggest that it's been well cared for and quite possibly needs no restorative work. (Are any of our members located where they could easily visit the seller and report back?)

 

While it doesn't go down to middle C in the right hand, as the Elise does, its top in that hand is a fifth higher than on the Elise, giving it enough range for (among other things) nearly all Irish tunes. And occasional crossing between the hands for particular notes will likely be a necessity on the Elise as well as on this Maccann. Both have limited overlap... 5 buttons on the Maccann, and 7 on the Elise, though the overlaps cover different ranges.

 

Make no mistake, I'm not knocking the Elise, but I do think it's seriously unfair to deride even a 39-button Maccann, at least as a starter instrument.

 

Edited to add: And for the Maccann, the upgrade options are still much more varied and even generally less expensive than for a Hayden/Wicki.

Edited January 31, 2013 by JimLucas

[Anglo-Irishman]

Not that the seller even knows what an Anglo is.

 

Not an Angelo, either (at least he got that right).

Reminds me of the anecdote about the 6th century Pope Gregory I, who saw some tall, blonde, handsome slaves in the market in Rome and asked where they came from. When told they were Angles, he exclaimed - in Latin, of course - "Non angli sed angeli," (not Angles, but angels), and decided to convert the whole tribe.

 

So when your bisonoric concertina is sounding really heavenly, you can say it's "Non anglo sed angelo!" (not an Anglo - an angel).

 

Cheers,

John

[Marien]

My... quel Angelo...

[tony]

 

It's a 39-key Maccann, which is only slightly more useful than a chocolate teapot.

 

Hey, you could pour your hot chocolate into your cup, pot and all.

 

Or how about a chocolate-covered manhole cover?

 

But seriously, with 30 % more notes than the Elise Hayden duet from Concertina Connection, including G#'s and D#'s, I'd say it's at least as useful and should be worth at least as much if it's in good condition. More, since it's a Lachenal, with typical "vintage" construction and "concertina-type" reeds. It's also smaller, and I suspect lighter. And though there aren't any internal pictures, the external appearance and that of the case suggest that it's been well cared for and quite possibly needs no restorative work. (Are any of our members located where they could easily visit the seller and report back?)

 

While it doesn't go down to middle C in the right hand, as the Elise does, its top in that hand is a fifth higher than on the Elise, giving it enough range for (among other things) nearly all Irish tunes. And occasional crossing between the hands for particular notes will likely be a necessity on the Elise as well as on this Maccann. Both have limited overlap... 5 buttons on the Maccann, and 7 on the Elise, though the overlaps cover different ranges.

 

Make no mistake, I'm not knocking the Elise, but I do think it's seriously unfair to deride even a 39-button Maccann, at least as a starter instrument.

 

Edited to add: And for the Maccann, the upgrade options are still much more varied and even generally less expensive than for a Hayden/Wicki.

 

 

My thoughts exactly Jim

[Dirge]

 

 

It's a 39-key Maccann, which is only slightly more useful than a chocolate teapot.

 

Hey, you could pour your hot chocolate into your cup, pot and all.

 

Or how about a chocolate-covered manhole cover?

 

But seriously, with 30 % more notes than the Elise Hayden duet from Concertina Connection, including G#'s and D#'s, I'd say it's at least as useful and should be worth at least as much if it's in good condition. More, since it's a Lachenal, with typical "vintage" construction and "concertina-type" reeds. It's also smaller, and I suspect lighter. And though there aren't any internal pictures, the external appearance and that of the case suggest that it's been well cared for and quite possibly needs no restorative work. (Are any of our members located where they could easily visit the seller and report back?)

 

While it doesn't go down to middle C in the right hand, as the Elise does, its top in that hand is a fifth higher than on the Elise, giving it enough range for (among other things) nearly all Irish tunes. And occasional crossing between the hands for particular notes will likely be a necessity on the Elise as well as on this Maccann. Both have limited overlap... 5 buttons on the Maccann, and 7 on the Elise, though the overlaps cover different ranges.

 

Make no mistake, I'm not knocking the Elise, but I do think it's seriously unfair to deride even a 39-button Maccann, at least as a starter instrument.

 

Edited to add: And for the Maccann, the upgrade options are still much more varied and even generally less expensive than for a Hayden/Wicki.

 

 

My thoughts exactly Jim

Yes, good post Jim, lots of truth in it, but I'd personally save those thoughts for a 46. There are lots of 46's and those extra notes don't cost you a huge amount more but are worth a lot. I can speak from personal experience here. I am having a huge amount of fun with my 46. On the big duets I play the fancy stuff you've heard; on the 46 I try and bash out any old tune I can think of with vamped harmony. It's a completely different thing, but it's a very useable and charming litttle instrument, and I hadn't realised how much you can do with them, having swallowed the oft repeated 'It really needs to go down to C on the RH' line in the past. I don't think I'd tell anyone that these days. (I still play it a lot in C but an octave higher, incidentally.)

 

The 39s are a bit too stripped, I think. A step too far. I wonder if Messrs Lachenal were aiming at players who were mainly interested in playing single line tunes when they produced the 39?

 

So I wouldn't want it or encourage anyone to buy it, but 'chocolate teapot' is probably overstating it too, Ivan!

[Geoff Wooff]

Quote Dirge;

but I'd personally save those thoughts for a 46. There are lots of 46's and those extra notes don't cost you a huge amount more but are worth a lot. I can speak from personal experience here. I am having a huge amount of fun with my 46. On the big duets I play the fancy stuff you've heard; on the 46 I try and bash out any old tune I can think of with vamped harmony. It's a completely different thing, but it's a very useable and charming litttle instrument, and I hadn't realised how much you can do with them, having swallowed the oft repeated 'It really needs to go down to C on the RH' line in the past. I don't think I'd tell anyone that these days. (I still play it a lot in C but an octave higher, incidentally.)

 

 

 

Now you've blown it !! And I don't mean just your cover. I was just getting myself into the idea of a 46, and thinking I'd get one for a handy price in these difficult times and you go and tell the world how wonderfull they are.

 

Oh, deary me.. how difficult life becomes for someone as spoilt as myself!

Edited January 31, 2013 by Geoff Wooff

[JimLucas]

 

 

 

But seriously, with 30 % more notes than the Elise Hayden duet from Concertina Connection, including G#'s and D#'s, I'd say it's at least as useful and should be worth at least as much if it's in good condition.

 

My thoughts exactly Jim

 

Yes, good post Jim, lots of truth in it, but I'd personally save those thoughts for a 46. There are lots of 46's and those extra notes don't cost you a huge amount more but are worth a lot. I can speak from personal experience here. I am having a huge amount of fun with my 46. On the big duets I play the fancy stuff you've heard; on the 46 I try and bash out any old tune I can think of with vamped harmony. It's a completely different thing, but it's a very useable and charming litttle instrument, and I hadn't realised how much you can do with them, having swallowed the oft repeated 'It really needs to go down to C on the RH' line in the past. I don't think I'd tell anyone that these days. (I still play it a lot in C but an octave higher, incidentally.)

 

The 39s are a bit too stripped, I think. A step too far. I wonder if Messrs Lachenal were aiming at players who were mainly interested in playing single line tunes when they produced the 39?

 

So I wouldn't want it or encourage anyone to buy it, but 'chocolate teapot' is probably overstating it too, Ivan!

 

My main point (which I've excerpted in the quote box above) was that if the Elise is considered an adequate starter instrument, then even a 39-button Maccann should be, too.

 

I'm sure that there are folks -- maybe you? -- who would say that neither is. I'm unsure, myself.

 

I certainly agree that the 46-button Maccann is more capable than the 39, and still realtively cheap, but I don't know current prices or what the price difference between the two might be. For many folks, price -- even a price difference of a few pounds -- can be a significant factor.

[Dirge]

Dunno really. I'm told the elise is a splendid thing but it's a Hayden, so I've never taken any interest in it. Never even thought about the range of it. I can't remember the layout of a 39 either, but I do remember working out which buttons were left out from a 46 to get down to 39 and thinking that it really was too sparse. Whether that stops a beginner having some fun with one I seriously doubt.

 

Your argument seems inescapable I agree. Interesting thought.

 

Also although I've never touched an elise I have tried a jackie out and on that basis even a cheap antique instrument would be hugely preferable in size tone and general playability.

[Ivan Viehoff]

The reason that a 39-key Maccann isn't much more use than a chocolate teapot (and a chocolate teapot isn't totally useless, you can eat it) is as follows. It is such a compromised instrument that the price you can get for it is so low it isn't economic to overhaul it into good playing order. So none of them ever are overhauled into good playing order, except very rarely by mistake by someone who didn't realise it wasn't worth doing. So they are never really in sufficiently good playing order.

 

A 42-key Crane has a much more useful selection of keys on it to be a useful beginners instrument than the Maccann, though the 35-key Crane is sufficiently compromised to be not worth overhauling.

 

There is actually quite a big difference in philosophy between the Elise and the 39-Maccann: the Elise doesn't even pretend to be chromatic, it has a very limited selection of accidentals, so it does at least have a broad selection of white notes. Whereas the 39-Maccann is nearly fully chromatic, and it in having all those accidentals the range is very limiting, especially in the left hand. It has a low C to give the impression of having a broad range in the left hand, but the next note up is an F, so even to play a C-maj chord you have to have a high E. It is actually more difficult to make good use of this concertina than one with more keys, so it isn't really much of a beginner instrument.

[tony]

The reason that a 39-key Maccann isn't much more use than a chocolate teapot (and a chocolate teapot isn't totally useless, you can eat it) is as follows. It is such a compromised instrument that the price you can get for it is so low it isn't economic to overhaul it into good playing order. So none of them ever are overhauled into good playing order, except very rarely by mistake by someone who didn't realise it wasn't worth doing. So they are never really in sufficiently good playing order.

 

A 42-key Crane has a much more useful selection of keys on it to be a useful beginners instrument than the Maccann, though the 35-key Crane is sufficiently compromised to be not worth overhauling.

 

There is actually quite a big difference in philosophy between the Elise and the 39-Maccann: the Elise doesn't even pretend to be chromatic, it has a very limited selection of accidentals, so it does at least have a broad selection of white notes. Whereas the 39-Maccann is nearly fully chromatic, and it in having all those accidentals the range is very limiting, especially in the left hand. It has a low C to give the impression of having a broad range in the left hand, but the next note up is an F, so even to play a C-maj chord you have to have a high E. It is actually more difficult to make good use of this concertina than one with more keys, so it isn't really much of a beginner instrument.

 

 

I couldn’t possibly agree with you Ivan. The “white keys” as you call them are identical on the 39 key as are on the 46 key with the exception that the high notes E,F and G in the right hand of the 39 key are missing.

 

 

The 39 key plays very well in the keys of G and D, so if you are into Irish music and are not happy with the anglo then this could be the instrument for you.

[David Williams]

Ieting discussions above about the suitability of a 39 key Maccan which I do not intend to comment on. I am however inerested in Duets having been lent a 62 key Wheatstone which I am battling with at the moment as a change from my Anglos.

I have just returned from a trip to Worthing as the "Boss" wanted to visit a fabric shop so I thought would go and have a look at this Lachenal that was for sale. Following are my findings.

The best thing about the item was the box, a nice bit of wood, well lined with a velvety material in which the instrument fitted very well. The bellows looked Ok as well. As to the rest of it not so good. Many of the buttons stuck so looks like the action needs a lot of work, the notes were not in tune with each other and not to concert pitch and after a bit of playing to try and get a tune out of it several stuck open. Not an instrument I would be interested in acquiring.

Hope above is of some use if any one is thinking of making a bid.

[David Barnert]

The 39s are a bit too stripped, I think. A step too far. I wonder if Messrs Lachenal were aiming at players who were mainly interested in playing single line tunes when they produced the 39?

 

Why on earth would someone "mainly interested in playing single line tunes" buy a duet concertina?

[Daniel Hersh]

 

The 39s are a bit too stripped, I think. A step too far. I wonder if Messrs Lachenal were aiming at players who were mainly interested in playing single line tunes when they produced the 39?

 

Why on earth would someone "mainly interested in playing single line tunes" buy a duet concertina?

 

To get a good deal on a vintage concertina, perhaps?

[Dirge]

 

The 39s are a bit too stripped, I think. A step too far. I wonder if Messrs Lachenal were aiming at players who were mainly interested in playing single line tunes when they produced the 39?

 

Why on earth would someone "mainly interested in playing single line tunes" buy a duet concertina?

David, you have sliced through the fustian gloom of this discussion to strike the true heart. How could anyone possibly suggest play single notes on a tiny concertina when it is clearly labeled a 'duet'? How indeed?