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Geoff Wooff

Courrier With Insurance

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I'm looking for a simple way of sending instruments safely and with insurance to the full current value. Years ago, before the de-regulation of the Banking and Insurance industries, it was possible to get your package delivered and fully covered for loss or acidental damage with out much dificulty. Then the changes wrought by the governmental bodies stopped the courrier companies from selling insurance... these regulations were revoked sometime later but the courriers have been slow in getting their insurance offers back on track.

I see things like "declared value"... one pays extra to cover goods up to the amount stipulated on the Airway Bill.. but trying to find out how and what is covered and even how much it will cost... is driving me to ask, does anyone have a simple solution?

 

I see people offering to send "courrier, insured" . Mostly my customers come to collect their new instruments... and in reality that only happens two or three times each year, but in between there are smaller , repair jobs or parts of instruments that do not warrant a visit but are still precious. Oh and then there is the odd Concertina being bought or sold :) .

 

Any suggestions ?

 

Geoff.

 

 

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Geoff,

Here from The Netherlands, I can now insure my recorders with a value up to 5,000€, without resorting to the sealing wax and string that used to be the bane of my life! With this service, the price of a 2kg parcel to an EU destination is 19€ and the rest of the world about 30€. The national post here was taken over by the Australian company TNT some years ago and while this has generally resulted in an explosively (sorry!) worse service, they do seem to have sorted the insurance issue out well. I don't suppose this is going to help you in France, but in the past I've used FedEx and UPS who are very pricey, but have the possibility of insurance and good traceability.
Personally though, I wouldn't send my concertinas anywhere by post, even if that means I probably know every bump on the train line Amsterdam - Siegen...

Adrian

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Thanks for that Adrian,

looks like you have found an ideal delivery service there , long may it continue. I would also prefer not to have to consign these things to a third party, although I've never had anything go missing or damaged in 35 years instrument making.

 

I now discover that UPS quote a rate for "Declared Value" insurance @ 1% , so I assume the other major Courrier services would have similar prices.

 

Mostly I wish to dispel the fears of my customers. Of course there is no way that any Insurance can compensate for the loss of an irreplaceable item like one's favorite Concertina!

Edited by Geoff Wooff

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Well Adrian all i can say is that a concertina was posted to me in the UK (very well packed) from the Netherlands via TNT and it arrived safely within two days. It was insured and I could track it all the way. Excellent service.

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Chris Algar told me the British post or couriers won't accept valuation of antiques. Any help on this would be valuable

And yet he usually advertises "courier-insured" when listing concertinas on ebay... so does he pretend that they are not antiques... or does the title of 'Antique' mean something much older ? Perhaps what is meant is just as you say Michael "they won't accept valuation" but they will accept payment for insurance :wacko:

 

Then perhaps Crish Algar has an all risks business insurance, because he has been sending concertinas back and forth to out sourced restorers and customers for years... and he did say that postage was one of his bigger expenses.

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Chris Algar told me the British post or couriers won't accept valuation of antiques. Any help on this would be valuable

And yet he usually advertises "courier-insured" when listing concertinas on ebay... so does he pretend that they are not antiques... or does the title of 'Antique' mean something much older ? Perhaps what is meant is just as you say Michael "they won't accept valuation" but they will accept payment for insurance :wacko:

 

Then perhaps Crish Algar has an all risks business insurance, because he has been sending concertinas back and forth to out sourced restorers and customers for years... and he did say that postage was one of his bigger expenses.

 

As far as I am aware, UPS and FedEx would insure you up to the declared value on the invoice, whatever that happened to be. I don't see why antique instruments would be any different, although an original 18th century recorder would probably have a value in 5 figures, and thus might be more difficult to insure. Fortunately, I've never been in a position where I've had to test this out, though a colleague here did have a couple of instruments lost last year, and TNT eventually paid up. Like you Geoff, I've never had an instrument lost in over thirty years, but I have had a few scares along the way. (Now where's that piece of wood I'm supposed to touch...)

 

Adrian

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As far as I am aware, UPS and FedEx would insure you up to the declared value on the invoice, whatever that happened to be. I don't see why antique instruments would be any different, although an original 18th century recorder would probably have a value in 5 figures, and thus might be more difficult to insure. Fortunately, I've never been in a position where I've had to test this out, though a colleague here did have a couple of instruments lost last year, and TNT eventually paid up. Like you Geoff, I've never had an instrument lost in over thirty years, but I have had a few scares along the way. (Now where's that piece of wood I'm supposed to touch...)

 

Adrian

 

Part of the problem is that my complete instruments do run well into Five Fugure sums!

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Hi Geoff, as you know I've been involved with this recently. I have spent literally days on the web and phone and my findings are, for a parcel going from the UK to an overseas destination, the maximum any courier will insure for is £2500, that includes Fedex, UPS, DHL etc. It may be different if you have an account with them, this is just going direct or through one of the agents.

 

Via ParcelForce it will cost £144, insured up to £2,000

 

Unless you have a regular account, no courier will insure £4,000 so anyone who says in their adverts "insured up to the full value" is lying or misguided.

 

Most of the agents, like Parcel2Go and Interparcel will not insure over £1,000 and the general rate is 5% of the value + the carriage cost.

 

I would love to be proved wrong but, as far as my research goes it is not possible to send a £4,000 instrument fully insured. Dont even think about insuring anything classed as an antique!

 

Good luck though.

Andrew

Edited by Andy Holder

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Hi Geoff, as you know I've been involved with this recently. I have spent literally days on the web and phone and my findings are, for a parcel going from the UK to an overseas destination, the maximum any courier will insure for is £2500, that includes Fedex, UPS, DHL etc. It may be different if you have an account with them, this is just going direct or through one of the agents.

 

Via ParcelForce it will cost £144, insured up to £2,000

 

Unless you have a regular account, no courier will insure £4,000 so anyone who says in their adverts "insured up to the full value" is lying or misguided.

 

Most of the agents, like Parcel2Go and Interparcel will not insure over £1,000 and the general rate is 5% of the value + the carriage cost.

 

I would love to be proved wrong but, as far as my research goes it is not possible to send a £4,000 instrument fully insured. Dont even think about insuring anything classed as an antique!

 

Good luck though.

Andrew

 

I've just done a calculation on the UPS website for a 3kg package shipping from The Netherlands to the UK. Their price for an overnight delivery is 150€ and for a two day delivery, 91€; the parcel having a value of 5,000€. If I increase the value of the parcel to 30,000€, the price goes up to 400€ or 340€ respectively. It seems difficult to comprehend why their conditions should be any different for a parcel sent from the UK. I realise that this is not proof they'd pay up in the event of breakage or loss, and indeed I can't see anywhere what their liability extends to, but in theory, it is possible to insure with UPS into 5 figures, at least from here...

 

Adrian

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Since shipping insurance only applies to the shipper, when buying musical instruments, we always buy a rider from our insurance company.

 

We use Heritage Musical Instrument Insurance to cover all of the instruments, and for a fairly low fee we can buy a rider policy that covers them during the shipment to us (since the regular insurance only applies after we take possession).

 

When shipping instruments domestically in the US (for example, sending a concertina in for a bit of maintenance), I ship it out with an accurate declared value and include the return shipping forms (all pre-paid, they just need to be attached), so that I am the shipper of record in both cases.

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Since shipping insurance only applies to the shipper, when buying musical instruments, we always buy a rider from our insurance company.

 

We use Heritage Musical Instrument Insurance to cover all of the instruments, and for a fairly low fee we can buy a rider policy that covers them during the shipment to us (since the regular insurance only applies after we take possession).

 

When shipping instruments domestically in the US (for example, sending a concertina in for a bit of maintenance), I ship it out with an accurate declared value and include the return shipping forms (all pre-paid, they just need to be attached), so that I am the shipper of record in both cases.

 

Yes this is a good idea and I have persuaded my customers to do this. They arrange for the instrument to be collected from my place and directly it is covered by their insurance. Some have found they can add this to their house insurance quite simply.

 

 

However, today's other posts only confirm my findings :( . Thanks to all.

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It seems difficult to comprehend why their conditions should be any different for a parcel sent from the UK.

 

In the end, it seems to be about politics and what the local management at the different companies feel they can get away with under the laws (including inter-national treaties) their respective nations. Even within the European Union there's little uniformity. Through the Danish post office I can make a shipment to the UK, complete with insurance and tracking, for a reasonable fee. (Not sure about "five figures", though.) But from Denmark to Germany, I can't get either insurance or tracking on any shipment, because (I'm told) the German post won't cooperate on such matters.

 

In the past, I've certainly been quoted different "rules" from the offices of the same shipper (be it UPS, FedEx, or whatever) in different countries. In the past I've found that the only viable shipper from Denmark to the US was DHL, because others either wouldn't insure to value, or wouldn't accept any "used" musical instruments, or whatever. And DHL was interesting, because they wouldn't accept a sealed package: Instead, their agent came to me (included in the charge), inspected the open package and its contents, then watched me complete the packing and sealing before accepting the package for shipment.

 

I realise that this is not proof they'd pay up in the event of breakage or loss, and indeed I can't see anywhere what their liability extends to...

 

A friend did run into that problem. When she shipped, she paid extra for "full coverage" up to a certain value. The concertina was damaged in shipping, and the shipper (one of the big ones; I forget which) refused to pay more than their default maximum, because they claimed their policies did not permit insuring above that default, even though she had the receipt that proved they had sold her such insurance. (If I recall correctly, a potential legal battle was avoided when the repair costs didn't exceed their default "maximum".)

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Since shipping insurance only applies to the shipper, when buying musical instruments, we always buy a rider from our insurance company.

 

We use Heritage Musical Instrument Insurance to cover all of the instruments, and for a fairly low fee we can buy a rider policy that covers them during the shipment to us (since the regular insurance only applies after we take possession).

 

When shipping instruments domestically in the US (for example, sending a concertina in for a bit of maintenance), I ship it out with an accurate declared value and include the return shipping forms (all pre-paid, they just need to be attached), so that I am the shipper of record in both cases.

 

Yes this is a good idea and I have persuaded my customers to do this. They arrange for the instrument to be collected from my place and directly it is covered by their insurance. Some have found they can add this to their house insurance quite simply.

 

 

However, today's other posts only confirm my findings :( . Thanks to all.

 

Funny thing is that my house-contents insurance won't cover musical instruments with a value over 3,000€. I have a special musical instruments insurance with worldwide cover against theft or breakage, which seem quite reasonable at about 1.4% of the insured value per year. As far as I can tell, it covers anything except war zones, terrorism or being left in an unattended vehicle.

 

Adrian

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Hi all. I stand corrected, which is great! I've just phoned UPS and they will insure for 1% of the declared value, so that's £40 on a £4000 instrument. Sorry to Adrian for doubting you. I'll go and change the listing for my Jeffries now!

Andrew

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Hi all. I stand corrected, which is great! I've just phoned UPS and they will insure for 1% of the declared value, so that's £40 on a £4000 instrument. Sorry to Adrian for doubting you. I'll go and change the listing for my Jeffries now!

Andrew

 

No problem Andrew, glad to hear that it worked out with UPS and good luck with the sale.

 

Adrian

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