Or maybe the Elise duet?

[David Colpitts]

Hello, all.

 

I have older Stagi 30b Anglo in C/G, and like it a lot; I play mostly straight up and down the rows in "home keys." While I've asked in other posts about the long-term viability of that approach, and freely admit the obvious shortcomings, I cannot seem to delay gratification in the near term by spending more than a very few minutes at a time exploring cross-row and other keys. I want to be able to play along with fiddlers in D, right now, which I can do with my "two pairs of harmonicas" approach in C and G. Several of you have at least tacitly encouraged that approach. I am about to go on pilgrimage to Button Box, where to try out new 20 button Stagi Anglo in G/D, which will give me that instant key facility, and with my "repertoire" of folk, Americana, hymns and the like, I really don't miss any accidentals. In other words, the next time I really need the third row will be the first time.

 

BUT WAIT....Should I, for roughly the same $$ (actually, about 20 percent fewer dollars) think about trying duet? The CC Elise would let me play (quickly, but not instantly?) in D, and the real question is something like, "will a limited Hayden duet of 34 keys be more or less limited for simple folk, fiddle, Americana and hymns than a limited 20b Anglo in the key I most need?" Again, I think what I play (or want to play) is referred to as a "chordal" or "harmonic" style, where the melody on right and chords on left make sense to me. I suspect volume could be a factor, too, since the D row in the Stagi might be not very loud, and the Elise might be louder accross the device. I admit to being intrigued by the notion of duet, as a gadget guy.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Thanks, and regards,

 

David

[KCMetroGnome]

I recently bought an elise as my first concertina and I've been pleased. I play several instruments and was a little worried about the missing notes. I've missed them some, but transposition is so easy on the hayden layout that it's not been too bad. Mostly I play folk tunes and children's songs with our baby and it works very well for that. It could be a problem if you are playing with a group, though, since you can't just transpose into whatever key you want like you can when playing alone.

[MatthewVanitas]

The CC Elise would let me play (quickly, but not instantly?) in D, and the real question is something like, "will a limited Hayden duet of 34 keys be more or less limited for simple folk, fiddle, Americana and hymns than a limited 20b Anglo in the key I most need?"

 

What you're describing is almost exactly what I do, and the kind of music I play, and I've had an Elise about two years now. Elise does great in C, G, D, and F (and their relatives minors/modes), and can fake its way through A with very little compromise (missing the G#). So as far as Celtic/Anglo/American folk goes, it pretty well suits the bill. I would definitely say it is far less key-limited than a 20-key, though in fairness I will grant that a 30-key D/G concertina can cover those same keys (plus Emaj with that D#), albeit not consistently in all octaves and with some juggling required.

 

 

Again, I think what I play (or want to play) is referred to as a "chordal" or "harmonic" style, where the melody on right and chords on left make sense to me.

 

This is a much clearer reason to get a Duet, since this is what Duet does better than the other boxes. I do a fair bit of this, usually while doing root-fifth/open chords on the left. I find full chords (I-III-V) harder to finger and maybe a bit cluttered, while a simpler two finger I-V gives a sparser sound that sounds great on hymns and minor tunes.

 

In particular, I really like doing Shape Note tunes. Check out this clip of mine, and if this is your kind of playing then a Duet could really be a good call:

 

My only hesitation is that you're already familiar with Anglo, so I'd at least consider a 30-key D/G Anglo in your wonderings, but a 20 seems a very minor increase in chromaticity for the trouble. While you're at the Button Box, I'd definitely advise you try a 30-key Anglo, G/D or C/G (and C/G 30-key can do D tunes just fine, as the Irish can attest), side by side with the Elise. You can get a feel for whether you want to add that "helper" chromatic row to your "two harmonicas" method, or whether you find the Hayden system as intuitive as those of us Elise enthusiasts do.

[Dirge]

Hello, all.

 

I have older Stagi 30b Anglo in C/G, and like it a lot; I play mostly straight up and down the rows in "home keys." While I've asked in other posts about the long-term viability of that approach, and freely admit the obvious shortcomings, I cannot seem to delay gratification in the near term by spending more than a very few minutes at a time exploring cross-row and other keys. I want to be able to play along with fiddlers in D, right now, which I can do with my "two pairs of harmonicas" approach in C and G. Several of you have at least tacitly encouraged that approach. I am about to go on pilgrimage to Button Box, where to try out new 20 button Stagi Anglo in G/D, which will give me that instant key facility, and with my "repertoire" of folk, Americana, hymns and the like, I really don't miss any accidentals. In other words, the next time I really need the third row will be the first time.

 

BUT WAIT....Should I, for roughly the same $$ (actually, about 20 percent fewer dollars) think about trying duet? The CC Elise would let me play (quickly, but not instantly?) in D, and the real question is something like, "will a limited Hayden duet of 34 keys be more or less limited for simple folk, fiddle, Americana and hymns than a limited 20b Anglo in the key I most need?" Again, I think what I play (or want to play) is referred to as a "chordal" or "harmonic" style, where the melody on right and chords on left make sense to me. I suspect volume could be a factor, too, since the D row in the Stagi might be not very loud, and the Elise might be louder accross the device. I admit to being intrigued by the notion of duet, as a gadget guy.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Thanks, and regards,

 

David

Of course you should think about trying a duet. They're both more versatile and cheaper than Anglos. The catch with a Hayden is you have to believe you'll never want a better tone or wider range than the elise because moving on is usually pricey because there's no pool of fine vintage instruments to draw from. If you can convince yourself of that, dump all the others on Ebay and go for it. If you think you are likely to want to take even duet playing a bit further, STILL get rid of the Anglos and have a look at going straight to a 46 key 'Maccan'. (Someone who doesn't play 'Maccan' will now tell you how difficult they are to get on with and justify it by saying they gave up when they tried. I can play a bit and think they're not as incomprehensible as an Anglo for starters.)

[JimLucas]

If you think you are likely to want to take even duet playing a bit further, STILL get rid of the Anglos and have a look at going straight to a 46 key 'Maccan'. (Someone who doesn't play 'Maccan' will now tell you how difficult they are to get on with and justify it by saying they gave up when they tried.)

If they do, you might do well to ignore them.

Though the Crane is still the duet I prefer to play, I don't think the Maccann is inherently more difficult or less useful, and that's not just theoretical. I have played some on the Maccann, and will certainly give it another go when I can finally afford to restore a couple of old Maccanns that I have. Also, there are at least a few concertina.net members who have reported taking up the Maccann in addition to either the anglo or the English and being pleased enough to continue.

 

I agree that a vintage 46-button Maccann in good condition (that's important!) is an adequate and useful starting duet, yet they can be had for surprisingly little money, as the demand is low.

 

Though the Maccann 46 doesn't go down to middle C in the right hand, but only to the G above (as you can see in this keyboard layout), the right hand of a G/D anglo -- whether 20- or 30-button -- only goes down to the F# a half step lower. The left hand rises 1½ octaves from the same low C as the Elise, lacking only the lowest C#, D, and D# (but it does have them in the next higher octave). Furthermore, the right hand is fully chromatic for two full octaves.

 

So I join Dirge in suggesting that you seriously consider a Maccann. And good luck to you.

[David Colpitts]

Thanks to all responders about duets! In fact, I visited Button Box and "pulled the trigger" on the lowest priced Anglo G/D, a Stagi 20 button. I will eventually investigate duets again, but I could sense from an hour or so trying one that it was both very cool and would require more learning than I am willing to put in before I play in D with fiddlers; 30 years of harmonica noodling make the Anglo my box for immediacy, but I will keep my eyes and ears open to all other types. I appreciate the thoughtful folk on this site!

 

Thanks again, and regards,

 

David

[Anglo-Irishman]

30 years of harmonica noodling make the Anglo my box for immediacy, but I will keep my eyes and ears open to all other types.

 

David,

 

Like you, I played the harmonica before I got my first concertina, which was an 20-button Anglo, and like you, I started playing the Anglo immediately. Much later, I got a 30-button Anglo and enjoyed the extended capabilities: more satisfying harmonies in the home keys, and more playable keys. After a further 10 years of getting better on this, I felt that the Anglo architecture was limiting me musically. I could now do really nice arrangements, but the more elaborate the arrangements, the more I was tied to the home keys. So I took the plunge and bought a Duet - in my case, a 48-key Crane.

 

I now play both. The pieces that I can play on the Anglo are easier on it than on the Crane, but on the Crane I can play pieces that I can't play (or can't play in that key) on the Anglo.

 

I suppose the recommendation that emerges from my experience would be to play and explore the instrument you've got until you reach its limitations, and then look for something else. For example: 20-b Anglo -> 30-b Anglo -> Duet.

 

Cheers,

John

[Marien]

David

 

I guess that the right choice depends on music you want to play... If you play a limited number of scales (sucah as C-G-D-A) you can do with an anglo. Many folk traditions are using limited tunings because the available instruments had limited possibilities. So if you are diving into such a tradition, why not stick to an anglo?

 

If you want "more" (different scales and harmonics) then you can use one of the Duets or the english 48b system, my preference is the Crane duet, but every system has its own pros and cons. On a Crane you can play tunes and chords that may be quite difficult to play on a Hayden Duet or an english concertina - but I believe that the same can be said the other way round for other tunes...

 

Marien