dennisg Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 hello everyone i wonder if anyone can help me,im abuot to try to restore a 30 button anglo lachenal.my first problem is the bone buttons which appear to be badly worn,i intend to make some new ones but i dont know where to get the material,has anyone got any ideas. dennisg i live in the west midlands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveS Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I saw some bone buttons advertised on eBay the other day. They may still be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 (edited) Spare secondhand bone buttons are available form Mark Adey at Concertina Spares If buying secondhand be aware that buttons fitted to Lachenal anglos are not all the same size. Edited December 13, 2012 by Theo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann-p Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 My husband, Brian, and I addressed the same problem a couple of months ago with no solution until we cleared out a cupboard a couple of weeks ago and found some (chewed!) old cooked dog bones that can be bought from pet stores. We decided to try to make buttons from them. Brian is an accomplished woodturner and said he thought it was possible to do this but hasn't had time yet. He's busy creating Christmas stock for the Gallery shop, and as we've just sold the house,I think it may be a little time before we can play with this! Maybe someone "out there" can give it a go. The other thing I thought of is that guitar nuts can be made of bone and might be usable. Guitarists please comment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ghent Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I'd be surprised if dog bones would be thick enough in the wall section. You'd probably need cow femurs. All do-able but stinky, I'd recommend concertina spares as above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_freereeder Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 (edited) A friend (now sadly departed) who used to make Northumbrian smallpipes used deer bone as an ivory substitute for the fittings and end caps on the drones and chanter. It works very well - the deer bone is firm and dense and can be turned nicely in a lathe. I guess suitable deer bone could be obtained from butchers who deal in venison. You could possibly try here. Edited to add hyperlink. Edited December 15, 2012 by Steve_freereeder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 A friend (now sadly departed) who used to make Northumbrian smallpipes used deer bone as an ivory substitute for the fittings and end caps on the drones and chanter. It works very well - the deer bone is firm and dense and can be turned nicely in a lathe. I guess suitable deer bone could be obtained from butchers who deal in venison. You could possibly try here. Edited to add hyperlink. Might I suggest your friend used Deer 'Horn' ? This material is tough and dense with a fine grain. It is somewhat like fingernail in its structure. Many types of Horn can be purchased, colour varies from Black (Buffalo ) through pink , biscuit and grey whites. Horse Shin bone would have been the original material back in the days before the Motor vehicle. My Great Grandfather was a Vetinary surgeon in London during the late Victorian period... in those days a Vet was really a Horse Mechanic.. keeping the transport moving! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael sam wild Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I have a set you can PM me. I find that if they are flat it is quite a job to round them off. In one case a friend replaced them with metal ended buttons which i understand use the metal ends from Biro pens. They work great and have a bush to reduce clatter! i'd be interested to hear how people approach rounding off flat ended bone buttons. On one of my Anglos some have been roughly filed a bit to round them . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Crabb Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Horse Shin bone would have been the original material back in the days before the Motor vehicle. My Great Grandfather was a Vetinary surgeon in London during the late Victorian period... in those days a Vet was really a Horse Mechanic.. keeping the transport moving! Geoff Thats interesting, according to family lore John Crabb used cow shinbone to process for buttons. I have done the odd one but it don't half stink during the process. Mike, Ideally, rounding off is best done in the lathe with an approriate shaped cutting tool to ensure uniformity, finishing with 2000 grade wet & dry paper before buffing with chamois to which a spot of jewellers rouge may be added. Beware of using some proprietry metal polishes to obtain a finish, they may stain the bone. Practice on a spare bit first. Geoffrey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Well I suppose one could use Cow bones too, in fact I have tried them as well but they were not large enough for my particular needs. The Shin bone of a big 'working horse' ( Shire,Clydesdale etc.) was recomended to me as a replacement for Ivory. Since then I have used Mammoth Ivory, although the market for good quality tusks is getting difficult, the Chinese are buying at higher prices than my supplier is willing to give. For final polishing I would suggest 'White Rouge'... sounds silly but there it is... trade name " White Dialux" .. used for final polishing of Gold and Platinum ... any residue of the polish will then be a similar colour to the bone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_freereeder Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 A friend (now sadly departed) who used to make Northumbrian smallpipes used deer bone as an ivory substitute for the fittings and end caps on the drones and chanter. It works very well - the deer bone is firm and dense and can be turned nicely in a lathe. I guess suitable deer bone could be obtained from butchers who deal in venison. You could possibly try here. Edited to add hyperlink. Might I suggest your friend used Deer 'Horn' ? ! No - it was definitely bone. I visited his workshop on several occasions and watched him saw lengths of bone from deer femurs and pelvis (as I recall) which he then mounted in a small lathe for turning the end caps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ann-p Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 The aforementioned dog bones are actually cow long bones. The dogs chew them. They have to be boiled and sterilised for sale and are much better than buying the raw item from a butcher! The dogs prefer the raw ones, but as has been said, they soon pong and the prepared ones are human friendly! If the buttons are turned they can be made with the tops rounded off and polished whilst still on the lathe, makes that job easier than trying to do it after taking them off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveS Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 A friend (now sadly departed) who used to make Northumbrian smallpipes used deer bone as an ivory substitute for the fittings and end caps on the drones and chanter. I know that some pipemakers use an artificial ivory substitute - is this any good for making concertina buttons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I know that some pipemakers use an artificial ivory substitute - is this any good for making concertina buttons? Most of these artifical Ivories are plastics designed primarily with colour in mind. Some of the modern Concertina makers use Delrin for its strength but if someone is looking to replace , and match the look of some existing bone or Ivory buttons then the choices become more difficult. 'They' say that a plastic can be designed for any purpose... but I have yet to find one that can really replace a natural material by copying its charateristics. I do have a very good Ivory substitute currently but it is a pig to work and does not take a final glass like finish. I'm also not sure if it would be strong enough in small crossections like the guide pin at the base of a concertina button. I have used Mammoth Ivory to make replacement buttons . I do have quite a lot of 'off-cuts' of Mammoth tusk left over from my day job so if any one needs a few pieces to copy Ivory buttons I might be able to help out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttonon Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I have used Mammoth Ivory to make replacement buttons . I do have quite a lot of 'off-cuts' of Mammoth tusk left over from my day job so if any one needs a few pieces to copy Ivory buttons I might be able to help out. Geoff, I'm very curious. Is "mammoth ivory" truly from mammoths (or mastodons), the prehistoric animals, or might they really be elephant tusks, with a disguised name, because of international laws clamping down on poaching? It's puzzling to me how remains of prehistoric animals could be apparently so available. What are the origins of the materials you have, and what prices are you aware of? Regards, Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 I have used Mammoth Ivory to make replacement buttons . I do have quite a lot of 'off-cuts' of Mammoth tusk left over from my day job so if any one needs a few pieces to copy Ivory buttons I might be able to help out. Geoff, I'm very curious. Is "mammoth ivory" truly from mammoths (or mastodons), the prehistoric animals, or might they really be elephant tusks, with a disguised name, because of international laws clamping down on poaching? It's puzzling to me how remains of prehistoric animals could be apparently so available. What are the origins of the materials you have, and what prices are you aware of? Regards, Tom Yes Mammoth Ivory is from Mammoths ,usually the Woolly Mammoth from Siberia or Alaska although some has been found dredged up by fishing nets in the shallower parts of the Seas where land masses were connected before the rise in sea levels or at a time of Ice Age. The pieces that I have been able to purchase are verifiably Mammoth Tusk.. simply the patern of the growth rings ( or grain) are different to those of the Elephant family... My source is a reputable dealer in the USA who has managed to secure some 'perfect pieces' at a price. The last time I bought some the price was about 800 euros per kilo! The peoples of the far north have found many frozen Mammoths, perhaps more so recently due to global warming, that were so perfectly preserved that eating the flesh was possible. I heard a story that somewhere a Mammoth is being cloned... After carefull and slow defrosting the tusks can render perfect and fresh material that needs to be seasoned for a year or two in a similar way that one would with timber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian brown Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 You'd probably be able to turn many buttons out of a piece like this, and it's a lot less messy than boiling up the bones of a handy ex-beast. If you want to do it the long way, the same site has some information which might be interesting here. They also sell mammoth 'ivory'. Adrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ghent Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 (edited) The aforementioned dog bones are actually cow long bones. The dogs chew them. They have to be boiled and sterilised for sale and are much better than buying the raw item from a butcher! The dogs prefer the raw ones, but as has been said, they soon pong and the prepared ones are human friendly! If the buttons are turned they can be made with the tops rounded off and polished whilst still on the lathe, makes that job easier than trying to do it after taking them off. Your post made me laugh, thanks, I really missed your meaning in the earlier post! i was imagining you had come across a pile of dingo bones out near the top well. When I was contemplating using bone myself I was warned it was not just a matter of picking up the nearest bone and turning up a button. The character of the bone has to be right, some is too spongy, and there needs to be a substantial thickness, something which I was told was rare now as cows are killed when quite young. Hence I was steered towards the femur near the hip joint. I imagine you would cut blanks with a bandsaw and roughly true them in a four jaw chuck. At that point it would be like making any other turned button. If you look at the link for sanitised bone blanks above, the thickest is 6mm, undersize for some Lachenals. Edited December 16, 2012 by Chris Ghent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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