Advise On Bb/f Concertinas

[JillLewis]

Hi,

 

New to the concertina world. Like the sound, and decided I'd like to learn to play. Since I've played Bb instruments in the past (clarinet & trumpet) I was thinking about a Bb/F instrument. Also, I've read that they're often used for church music, which would be another plus.

 

Any suggestions on a good starting one?

 

Will there be any at the SqueezeIn in Sept.? (which I'm attening on Sat.)... or at least people who've played them???

 

Any info/advise will be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Jill

[Stephen Chambers]

Since I've played Bb instruments in the past (clarinet & trumpet) I was thinking about a Bb/F instrument.  Also, I've read that they're often used for church music, which would be another plus.

Jill,

 

In that case, maybe what you should consider is an Ab/Eb, which plays in Bb across the rows (like playing in D on a C/G). That was the favoured model with Salvation Army anglo players, because it would play in the same keys as their brass instruments, and it has a lovely deep, organ-like tone.

[JillLewis]

Thanks Stephen,

 

An Ab/Eb... That's certainly worth thinking about.

 

Any suggestions for makers of that type?

 

Also, do you know if there are ever used ones floating around?

 

Again, thanks for your suggestion.

 

Jill

[Stephen Chambers]

An Ab/Eb... Any suggestions for makers of that type?

All the major concertina makers in the late 19th/early 20th century made them. You will especially find examples by George Jones (who first had the Salvation Army contract) and later Lachenal & Co. (after Jones closed down), both with the initials SA worked into the fretwork. Otherwise C. Jeffries made some superb ones (General Booth's concertina-playing daughter, Eva, appears to have had a four-row Jeffries).

 

Also, do you know if there are ever used ones floating around?

They do come up, but many of them have been converted to G/D over the years (something I must confess to having done myself, many times), for which they are ideally suited. Back when they were being made, Ab/Eb seems to have been a much more common tuning than G/D, but the opposite is the case today.

[Daniel Bradbury]

Jill, I fully agree with Stephen that an Ab Eb instrument will give you the keys of the common keys of band instruments. The Ab Eb instruments are not easy to find, but for that matter, neither are the Bb F instruments. Your decision should probably rest on 1 what music you wish to play, 2 whether you will be playing with other instruments, what kind of instruments they are and 3 if you wish to accompany yourself singing. (you may wish to pitch your concertina to your vocal keys). The common keys of the Bb/F are Bb, F and C with their relative minors.

 

Other alternative of course include the English System, or the Duets.

[Ken_Coles]

Another route to consider is that Frank Edgley and Bob Tedrow (and possibly others) would make you an accordion-reeded model in Ab/Eb. Might be less costly and faster than searching out a used...I haven't seen many of them here in the U.S.

 

Good luck, concertina players do go for the exotic.

 

Ken Coles

(who plays F horn and Bb trumpet)

[Stephen Chambers]

The Ab Eb instruments are not easy to find, but for that matter, neither are the Bb F instruments.

Unfortunately, many's a good Bb/F has likewise been converted, but to C/G, in order to satisfy modern demand. And again I cannot plead innocence - Mea culpa !

 

However, I can draw comfort from the fact that changing the tuning of anglos is nothing new, and that even Jeffries did it themselves (they even converted a four-row anglo to a Jeffries duet for Jim Harvey, former Secretary of the ICA).

[stuart estell]

(you may wish to pitch your concertina to your vocal keys)

I would only want to add one observation here: that if you want a Bb/F for singing to, bear in mind that it's only a tone lower than the C/G, and with a bit of vocal practise and the right kind of development exercises it's possible to extend your vocal range up by a tone reasonably easily and painlessly - which would then make your choice of instruments that much wider.

 

Stuart

[Robin Madge]

Perhaps I should point out that F and Bb are my wife's favourite keys to play in on the English. She says that she finds the chords are easier.

 

I find that I need a Bb/F anglo to play in these keys and also manage Eb with it, but not C which would come more naturally to players used to Irish style.

 

Robin Madge

[JillLewis]

Thank you to everyone for their advise and suggestions regarding Bb/F.

 

I've been offered lots of wonderful thoughts.

 

Now, if I can just get near enough to any of these concertinas to hear them, see how easy or hard they are to hold, and how affordable they are... then I'll be golden.

 

Jill

[Sandy Winters]

I would agree with Daniel B. that the first consideration should be who you think you might be playing with. With a 'flat' instrument you will have a very difficult time joining in at any Irish session, or for that matter, any old-time session. Even taking lessons will be difficult, or working with a video.

 

I'd recommend sticking to a common key system for a beginner. C/G.

[Stephen Chambers]

With a 'flat' instrument you will have a very difficult time joining in at any Irish session

That may be the case generally, but not necessarily here in Ireland where you sometimes encounter an "Eb session" (and many Irish bands play in Eb). Noel Hill realised the possibilities of the Ab/Eb many years ago, finding that the fingering of such tricky tunes as The Golden Keyboard is much easier on the straight row (G/D style), or it can be played easily in Bb across the rows. I know several players here who sometimes play an Ab/Eb, including Micheal O Raghallaigh (who has a very fine Jeffries example) and Tim Collins (heard on Track 4 of his new album).

[Frank Edgley]

Many seasoned players have a lower pitched instrument and have recorded with it, for example Gearoid OhAllmuirhain, Mary MacNamara, Micheal O'Rahilly (and others) because of the lovely tone of the lower instruments. My favourite to play on my own, right now, is one of my G/D wooden-ended instruments. These lower pitched instruments are usually second instruments. Most players start out with and stay with C/G as their primary instruments.

[Alan Day]

I agree with the recent postings regarding CG instrument,as Jill is a beginner it would make the lower price instruments available to her for learning to play and sing with and then moving to a key more suitable for her voice if the pitch is difficult.Jill should be able to sell the old instrument easily and go for something better as discussed in previous discussions.

I have a BpF converted Jeffries duet which I play with trombone church type music it is a lovely sounding instrument,but like Frank my GD is the one that I always pick up for practice and general playing.Having said that at Bradfield I had a play of Mark Davis baritone and although a bit slow to respond it was like holding a spinning washing machine,( not that I do often) it vibrates through your body.

Great fun

Al

[Robin Harrison]

Of course,if you didn't want to play across the rows, (as many of us don't) , then a Bflat\F would be OK , too. Robin

[Daniel Bradbury]

Jill,

 

If you wouldn't mind putting your location in your profile, perhaps someone could direct you to a place or introduce you to players near you who have such instruments.

 

I would like to remind all posters that there are distinct advantages to all of us on the forum if each would put in their location (ie city, county, state or country etc.)

[Stephen Chambers]

Jill,

 

We probably have you thoroughly confused at this stage, but whereas C/G might be considered the "normal", or "concert", pitch for an anglo, I took it from your initial post that you were looking for an instrument that plays in Bb, which the C/G is not suitable for.

 

Another way of looking at it is that compared with the C/G, the Bb/F transposes just the same as the Bb instruments you are used to (which may be why you mentioned it in the first place ?). However, those who normally play "across the rows" would regard the Bb/F as a C instrument, and the Ab/Eb as the Bb instrument.

 

Now, I think you need to meet some concertina players and look at some instruments . . .

 

Best of luck !