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Calling all EC players - help!


charviol

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Hey, gang. The recently purchased Anglo concertina is working out well; with some experience with a Cajun-style C melodeon, bellows work makes sense, and the C-row reflects the 1-row melodeon very well. So no problems with Mr. Anglo.

 

However, the rental EC from a US-based free reed establishment is a bit of a problem. Maybe I didn't ask and they didn't tell, but this concertina absolutely reeks of tobacco. I'm supposed to struggle with this thing as a complete novice with the bellows smelling like a chain smoker? This is totally ridiculous. Aside from its tobacco abuse problems, the EC as an EC is kind of weird to hold, pull bellows with thumb and pinky, and work the fingers around especially the lowest notes. It feels kind of cramped. Is this usually a problem for a beginner? I would love to learn how to play the EC ("one concertina for all styles" according to one writer), and many have suggested I consider that instrument as a violinist, but it sure ain't pouring tunes out at this point! Maybe it's because the darn thing is coughing and wheezing too much to sing a pretty song for me.

 

So, are there any suggestions to help me hold the concertina in a firm, secure way to smoothly work the bellows? Suggestions for getting around the buttons? Anybody in the US I can contact/call about this? I am more than motivated to work with an EC to make it shine. But there is no way I'm buying this particular tobacco-infested instrument. I would love to know where I could rent a clean model or buy a decent, sweet-smelling EC that is pre-owned. Any good DVD's or You Tube clips I could watch that can demonstrate the hold and bellows technique so that I can get through these early awkward times? EC aficionados: I await your good advice and encouragement. Many thanks!

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1) Eau de Fumee

learning to inquire specifically and in writing by email so there is a record of it, as to tobacco or other odors in a potential purchase, is a lesson that is kind of a rite of passage for newbie ebay/craigslist/used shoppers. just be glad you've learned the lesson in a rental situation, so your exposure is limited.

 

2) Petit Poucet Probleme

there are truckloads of discussion posts on this site about the EC thumb strap from haters and lovers, likewise the EC pinky trough, including advice, debate, and full-on free-for-alls and including people who have designed elaborate modifications to help ameliorate what some find the agonies of the EC setup. i tried EC on an asian cheapie for several months last year, and was surprised to find myself loving it, but only after watching a bunch of 'tube clips to see how people survived what i found the excruciating position constraints of the given setup, and stumbling on clips of Simon Thoumire, who doesn't use that pinky thing at all, and achieves much freedom of movement and access that way. it worked for me, with the result being that i now really want an EC and am currently researching high-quality accordian-reeded (or "hybrid") options.

Edited by ceemonster
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How horrible to try to play the EC with a tobacco smell.

 

There is a set of videos on Youtube by "nytram" which show how to begin with the EC.

 

There is a long post by Jim Lucas called "Concertina Orienteering" which I found useful. You can find it by typing "orienteering" into the search line. I'm sorry but I do not know how to link to an old post.

 

I do not know your budget for buying an EC, but Greg Jowaisas mentioned recently that he had two brass reeded Lachenals for sale. I recently bought an EC from him, and it plays very well. If you are interested in learning on a Jackie, I have a two year old one that I no longer play.

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your term "decent" quality means different things to different shoppers. what do you mean? you can probably get a used Morse Albion sooner or later for $2200 to $2400 by watching their site listings, or a brass-reeded wheatstone for somewhat less by watching ebay.

 

if you mean, like, a Stagi, Castiglione Accordions in the Midwest has a used concertina page which features mostly chemnitzers, but sometimes lists used Stagis.

 

currently, both the first and the last entry on the page concern stagi ECs. you could email questions back and forth with Castglione including one regarding aromas:

 

http://www.castiglioneaccordions.com/used.html?style=F.+CONCERTINAS

 

Lark in the Morning instrument store in San Francisco also occasionally has used Stagi ECs, though nothing listed at present:

http://larkinam.com/Concertinas.html

Edited by ceemonster
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A couple of thoughts that I hope might help ....

Don't think of the 4th finger as part of the 'pulling' mechanism; the 4th finger rest is there for stabilising and orientation, not as something to be gripped to give traction.

Also, don't shove your thumbs too far into the loops; I play with the thumb not much further than the first (nail end) knuckle. I have seen people complaining they can't reach any of the bottom octave comfortably, who have the thumbs pushed right the way through the straps.

Thirdly, I always play either sitting down, or with my left leg elevated on a chair or a collapsible stool, with the left-hand reedpan resting on my thigh. That takes a lot of the weight and makes playing (for me) very much easier.

Good luck and keep at it

 

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A couple of thoughts that I hope might help ....

Don't think of the 4th finger as part of the 'pulling' mechanism; the 4th finger rest is there for stabilising and orientation, not as something to be gripped to give traction.

Also, don't shove your thumbs too far into the loops; I play with the thumb not much further than the first (nail end) knuckle. I have seen people complaining they can't reach any of the bottom octave comfortably, who have the thumbs pushed right the way through the straps.

Thirdly, I always play either sitting down, or with my left leg elevated on a chair or a collapsible stool, with the left-hand reedpan resting on my thigh. That takes a lot of the weight and makes playing (for me) very much easier.

Good luck and keep at it

 

 

I agree with supporting the weight of the concertina on your leg (either left or right or even both as suits) especially when you start. The EC uses muscles that nothing else does and I think almost every finds they get aches and pains to start with until you a) relax the death like grip you may be using b ) build up some muscles.

AS others have said, some people don't use the pinkie rest, but I think it's useful as a reference point whil you're learning. Think of it like climbing and try and keep 3 points of contact at all times smile.gif thumb, pinkie and a finger on a button. when you've palyed a note, leave that finger in light contact until it's needed for the next note. It may make your playing a bit legato, but you need to be able to find buttons accurately before you can start hammering buttons from a height for more attack.

 

 

The pain wears off eventually, just don't practice for too long at a time.

 

I have a query for other EC players ..... put your hands on the desk in front of you. Do you think your little fingers are starting to become warped ... I'd swear mine are now slightly curved in from years playing ... but maybe they were always like that and I only starting noticing lately.

 

Chris

Edited by spindizzy
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I don't know if this actually works since I have anosmia, but I've heard that baking soda will absorb tobacco odors. So maybe sprinkle a layer of baking soda in the bottom of the case, and then vacuum it out after a couple of days?

 

As for holding the concertina, I've found it most comfortable to hold it on one knee, and only open the top of the bellows. Here's a video of someone else doing what I mean:

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Don't think of the 4th finger as part of the 'pulling' mechanism; the 4th finger rest is there for stabilising and orientation, not as something to be gripped to give traction.

I disagree.

A more lengthy reply will have to wait at least a day, as today I'm attending two events of my high school reunion, and I have to leave shortly.

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The aroma is improving with vinegar therapy, although I might unleash baking soda on the hard case, which is the greater offender.

 

The fan bellows technique is interesting, and I shall experiment with it some more. Bellows movement makes more sense so far with my anglo and its strap. Does anyone play English with a modified anglo-style strap mechanism? I wonder how that would work, especially with the lower keys and possible crowding?

 

How would that used Jackie be? One person who responded said that he/she had one not used for a couple of years. Did you find it limiting, knowing that the top octave is not included and that all the accidentals normally seen on the 48 key model are not included? I understand it has a nice sound. Are the bellows responsive? Thanks!

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The aroma is improving with vinegar therapy, although I might unleash baking soda on the hard case, which is the greater offender.

 

The fan bellows technique is interesting, and I shall experiment with it some more. Bellows movement makes more sense so far with my anglo and its strap. Does anyone play English with a modified anglo-style strap mechanism? I wonder how that would work, especially with the lower keys and possible crowding?

 

How would that used Jackie be? One person who responded said that he/she had one not used for a couple of years. Did you find it limiting, knowing that the top octave is not included and that all the accidentals normally seen on the 48 key model are not included? I understand it has a nice sound. Are the bellows responsive? Thanks!

Jack/Jackie: I bought a new Jack and initially found it a bit stiff and that some of the lower notes were slow to respond or sibilant. The lower notes were also about 20 cents off key. I contacted Wim and he told me to play on, that these instruments need at least 100 hours playing in time before they respond well. I have found this to be true, my Jack’s problems are mostly gone and I think that it is still improving. However, it was difficult for me, as a beginner, to work with these problems. Maybe the Jackies would be less troublesome.

 

If you can find one, I would recommend looking for a played in second-hand Jackie rather than a new one.

 

Don.

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Bellows movement makes more sense so far with my anglo and its strap. Does anyone play English with a modified anglo-style strap mechanism? I wonder how that would work, especially with the lower keys and possible crowding?

 

I have seen a EC which was modified to have a strap before. Though I didn't play with it extensively, it seemed that the strap did not change the bellows movement very much, perhaps because it did not have the wooden block which anglos have at the wrist.

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My 1915 Wheatstone #21 EC came with original wrist straps as well as thumbstraps. I found them awkward to use and removed them early on. My advice is to keep the thumbstraps loose around the first joint of the thumb, so you can easily move your hands forward and back to reach high- and low-end buttons, while the weight of the instrument is supported by your knee. The thumbstraps are all you need to open the bellows, and the sides of your thumbs and palms to close them. The pinkie tray is mostly for keeping your hand comfortably located, and becomes progressively less important as your playing skills develop. B)

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I play with wrist straps, and I'm now at the point where I find it very difficult to play without them.

 

Here's the thing though, I wear them very loose. They really don't do much as far as helping me hold the instrument or work the bellows. They fall loose about where my hand meets my wrist, but that's enough to tell my hands if they're in the proper position or not, and to let me know if the concertina is moving out of position. It's a form of feedback more than anything else, but when I try to play a concertina that doesn't have them my hands and fingers are completely lost within seconds.

 

I have a tenor treble, and they really help to find that bottom row. When I can feel the straps getting tight against my wrist I know I'm down far enough to hit the bottom row.

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