Andy Holder Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Finally, I've managed to get my Jeffries into selling condition. I put it up on ebay last night, here. I would be very happy to negotiate a sale on Cnet as I'd much rather see the donation go to Cnet than eBay. As I've said, very happy for anyone to come and play it. Couldn't imagine buying a car without driving it! Thanks to lots of Cnetters for helping with the finer points of the restoration. In the end, rather than selling an instrument that sounded awful, I've tuned to the nearest keys, which meant droppping everything by 30-50 cents. I still have some of the odd notes to finish. Hoping it will be a nice addition to someone who maybe already has a C/G. I can play this a little better than the English but still not good enough for a Youtube performance! Andrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkvN Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Hi Andy, The instrument looks lovely! In the description on e-bay you mention a serial number, 23124, and indeed there is a clear number in pencil on the reed pan on one of your photo's. However, I thought the Jeffries family weren't very talented in book keeping? It's the first time I hear of a serial number (anywhere above no. 50 or so). Does anywhone have a clue? Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Holder Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) Hi Andy, The instrument looks lovely! In the description on e-bay you mention a serial number, 23124, and indeed there is a clear number in pencil on the reed pan on one of your photo's. However, I thought the Jeffries family weren't very talented in book keeping? It's the first time I hear of a serial number (anywhere above no. 50 or so). Does anywhone have a clue? Cheers, Mark Hi Mark, I agree, it is an odd number for a serial number. It would appear to be an early one, before Praed Street. It has other pencil markings, on the RH reedpan, near the 23124 it has a 6 and a 46. In the LH reedpan it has what looks like 6 and 46 but partially obscured by a chamber wall, glued in afterwards. In the RH bellows frame it has what appears to be Q7 and the name Brown, In the LH bellows frame it has an L (like a curly £ without the crossbars) and 7 and again Brown. Perhaps the serial number is either 6 or 46? Any other ideas anyone? Edited July 13, 2012 by Andy Holder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 How about 23rd December 1904 for your serial number of 23124 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 And the figure 46 appearing in more than one place is more likely to be a batch number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Holder Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 How about 23rd December 1904 for your serial number of 23124 ? That's a nice idea Geoff. What a great Christmas present for someone! Although I don't believe CJ was in the habit of selling to the "nobs"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Holder Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 And the figure 46 appearing in more than one place is more likely to be a batch number. I would agree if it were a Wheatstone or Lachenal but it sounds a little out of character to be so organised in the manufacturing. Perhaps Mr Brown was a particularly fastidious employee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkvN Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Actually I think some other Jeffries do have batch numbers. Has anyone ever tried to estimate how many Jeffries were made? Comparing the numbers of pre-war Wheatstones and Jeffries that pop up in auction, they may not be as rare as the mythical aura that surrounds them sometimes seems to suggest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Crabb Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Hi Andy, The instrument looks lovely! In the description on e-bay you mention a serial number, 23124, and indeed there is a clear number in pencil on the reed pan on one of your photo's. However, I thought the Jeffries family weren't very talented in book keeping? It's the first time I hear of a serial number (anywhere above no. 50 or so). Does anywhone have a clue? Cheers, Mark Hi Mark, I agree, it is an odd number for a serial number. It would appear to be an early one, before Praed Street. It has other pencil markings, on the RH reedpan, near the 23124 it has a 6 and a 46. In the LH reedpan it has what looks like 6 and 46 but partially obscured by a chamber wall, glued in afterwards. In the RH bellows frame it has what appears to be Q7 and the name Brown, In the LH bellows frame it has an L (like a curly £ without the crossbars) and 7 and again Brown. Perhaps the serial number is either 6 or 46? Any other ideas anyone? Andy and all, Just a few further thoughts. Bellows frames. As it is quite common to see a stylised L for the Left side, could the Q in the bellows frame be a stylised R for the Right side. 6? this number in Jeffries usually indicates a 'Batch' number and may be found on the bellows frames and endboxes. A batch number identifies these basic major shapes that are assembled using the same clamps and ensures that these match up in size and shape. Batch numbers refer to parts of the same size and shape made at the same time and do not necessarily indicate a number of instruments of the same type /number of buttons made at the same time e.g. Jeffries/Crabb 6 inch AF Hexagonal shapes could be used for 20 – 45 button Anglo's. Crabb & others 6.25 AF Hexagonal shapes could be used for 20 – 45 button Anglo's or 40 – 48 button English etc. Reed pans. 7? Although it would be expected to see this as the same (batch) number as marked on the bellows frame i.e. 6 in this case, it is possible that a mistake in numbering was made during manufacture or the pan had been swapped from another instrument at some time. 46? As discussed in Marks post , we are aware that some Jeffries (and Crabb) Anglo reed pans of the period were routinely marked out for more reeds than were actually needed or fitted in a finished instrument. It is therefore possible the reed pans may have been marked out for a 46 (45 + W) and annotated accordingly. 23124? Certainly not a serial/ID number. Could be a repair number or pawn brokers number but the latter is usually found scratched on the exterior As we know that the instrument has been converted from a 38 Button, this could be the date of conversion, 23 Jan 1924. (The 4 in 23124 does appear to be slightly different to that in 46.) C Jeffries Anglos that do contain a four digit ID number starting with 8 (8xxx), were made in the Crabb workshop. Brown? Could be an owner at sometime or the person instigating/carrying out the changes. Good luck with the sale Andy Geoffrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Holder Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 Hi Andy, The instrument looks lovely! In the description on e-bay you mention a serial number, 23124, and indeed there is a clear number in pencil on the reed pan on one of your photo's. However, I thought the Jeffries family weren't very talented in book keeping? It's the first time I hear of a serial number (anywhere above no. 50 or so). Does anywhone have a clue? Cheers, Mark Hi Mark, I agree, it is an odd number for a serial number. It would appear to be an early one, before Praed Street. It has other pencil markings, on the RH reedpan, near the 23124 it has a 6 and a 46. In the LH reedpan it has what looks like 6 and 46 but partially obscured by a chamber wall, glued in afterwards. In the RH bellows frame it has what appears to be Q7 and the name Brown, In the LH bellows frame it has an L (like a curly £ without the crossbars) and 7 and again Brown. Perhaps the serial number is either 6 or 46? Any other ideas anyone? Andy and all, Just a few further thoughts. Bellows frames. As it is quite common to see a stylised L for the Left side, could the Q in the bellows frame be a stylised R for the Right side. 6? this number in Jeffries usually indicates a 'Batch' number and may be found on the bellows frames and endboxes. A batch number identifies these basic major shapes that are assembled using the same clamps and ensures that these match up in size and shape. Batch numbers refer to parts of the same size and shape made at the same time and do not necessarily indicate a number of instruments of the same type /number of buttons made at the same time e.g. Jeffries/Crabb 6 inch AF Hexagonal shapes could be used for 20 – 45 button Anglo's. Crabb & others 6.25 AF Hexagonal shapes could be used for 20 – 45 button Anglo's or 40 – 48 button English etc. Reed pans. 7? Although it would be expected to see this as the same (batch) number as marked on the bellows frame i.e. 6 in this case, it is possible that a mistake in numbering was made during manufacture or the pan had been swapped from another instrument at some time. 46? As discussed in Marks post , we are aware that some Jeffries (and Crabb) Anglo reed pans of the period were routinely marked out for more reeds than were actually needed or fitted in a finished instrument. It is therefore possible the reed pans may have been marked out for a 46 (45 + W) and annotated accordingly. 23124? Certainly not a serial/ID number. Could be a repair number or pawn brokers number but the latter is usually found scratched on the exterior As we know that the instrument has been converted from a 38 Button, this could be the date of conversion, 23 Jan 1924. (The 4 in 23124 does appear to be slightly different to that in 46.) C Jeffries Anglos that do contain a four digit ID number starting with 8 (8xxx), were made in the Crabb workshop. Brown? Could be an owner at sometime or the person instigating/carrying out the changes. Good luck with the sale Andy Geoffrey Geoffrey, thank you for that marvellous reply. It hadn't occurred to me that the 46 might be a reed pan designation. It certainly has the right number of potential chambers. That would explain why the chamber wall has been glued over one of the numbers, once it has been selected the number is no longer important. The alternative date is also very canny, as you say, the two 4s are certainly in a different hand. I believe that the woodwork is not up to Crabb standards so it's almost certainly a true Jeffries. The reeds are interesting. It is the first Jeffries I've tuned and the steel is noticeably much harder than the Wheatstones or Lachenals I've done to date. It takes much more filing to change the pitch by an equivalent amount. Is this the key to the "Jeffries sound"? As a footnote Geoffrey, I hope you are writing, or at least planning to write, a book. Your knowledge is encyclopaedic! As and when, in the distant future, you shuffle off this mortal coil, I hope the knowledge remains for posterity! The snippets that are available about the past makers are absolutely fascinating. Thanks again. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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