So What Sort Of Duet System Do I play?

[Anglo-Irishman]

Mind you I think my initial premise that Maccann doesn't really deserve to be immortallised remains unchallenged. I'd better be a Wheatstone duet player.

 

Dirge,

Never mind! Just keep us supplied with those exquisite recordings of your Whatchamacallit Duet!

 

Cheers,

John

[tony]

If this is true then Maccann could hardly de described as a thief:

 

"This 'Duette' system of Wheatstone's was resurrected and enlarged by 'Professor' MacCann of Plymouth in the 1880s: he designed and patented an enlarged keyboard, and persuaded both the Wheatstone and Lachenal companies to produce the instrument as the 'McCann Duet'. These were made with up to eighty-one keys, and many examples can be seen in the Wheatstone and Lachenal sections of the C[oncertina] M[useum] Collection."

The same article is available online at Neil Wayne's website (www.free-reed.co.uk), but in the ONLINE version the paragraph says:

"This 'Duette' system of Wheatstone's was resurrected and enlarged by 'Professor' McCann of Plymouth in the 1880s: he designed and patented an enlarged keyboard, and persuaded both the Wheatstone and Lachenal companies to produce the instrument as the 'McCann Duet'. These were made with up to eighty-one keys, and many examples can be seen in the Wheatstone and Lachenal sections of the C M Collection."

 

 

http://www.concertina.net/bg_maccann_spelling.html

 

The keyboard of the Wheatstone Duet and the Maccann Duet are considerably different and this is probably why the Wheatstone failed and the Maccann succeeded.

 

Dirge, to describe yourself as a Wheatstone Duet player would, therefore, make you somewhat unique, which I’m sure you are but not necessarily in this context.

 

I shall continue to refer to myself as a Maccann player.

 

Have fun

[malcolm clapp]

Today as I was perusing the 7th January 1903 edition of the (NZ) Otago Witness (as one does), this article leapt out at me...

 

Thought it might be of interest to Dirge (and others), only slightly off topic.

 

 

"Professor MacCann, the "king of concertina players", was taught the concertina by his father (himself wonderful player thereon), and commenced his study at the age of seven. The first public appearance of "the premier concertina player of the world" was before the late Emperor Louis Napoleon of France, and in 1879 he played before HRH the Prince of Wales on the occasion of the laying of the foundation stone of the Eddystone Lighthouse. This was by special desire of the Prince. Mr MacCann had the honour of appearing quite recently at Balmoral before Her Majesty the Queen. In 1885 he made his first London appearance at the Inventions Exhibition. In 1890 he went to America and won the American championship, being awarded the gold medal, together with a purse of sovereigns. At Johannesburg he was presented with an illuminated address and a diamond ring. At the Glasgow Exhibition Building he performed before 10,000 people, receiving the largest salary he had ever been paid for one night."

 

Apparently Professor MacCann toured New Zealand in 1902/03 with Rickard's Vaudeville Company as a support act for the famous strong man Eugen Sandow.

 

I have this vision of Sandow working out with an 81 key..... No, that's too frightening for words!

 

MC

[Dirge]

If this is true then Maccann could hardly de described as a thief:

 

"This 'Duette' system of Wheatstone's was resurrected and enlarged by 'Professor' MacCann of Plymouth in the 1880s: he designed and patented an enlarged keyboard, and persuaded both the Wheatstone and Lachenal companies to produce the instrument as the 'McCann Duet'. These were made with up to eighty-one keys, and many examples can be seen in the Wheatstone and Lachenal sections of the C[oncertina] M[useum] Collection."

The same article is available online at Neil Wayne's website (www.free-reed.co.uk), but in the ONLINE version the paragraph says:

"This 'Duette' system of Wheatstone's was resurrected and enlarged by 'Professor' McCann of Plymouth in the 1880s: he designed and patented an enlarged keyboard, and persuaded both the Wheatstone and Lachenal companies to produce the instrument as the 'McCann Duet'. These were made with up to eighty-one keys, and many examples can be seen in the Wheatstone and Lachenal sections of the C M Collection."

 

 

http://www.concertina.net/bg_maccann_spelling.html

 

The keyboard of the Wheatstone Duet and the Maccann Duet are considerably different and this is probably why the Wheatstone failed and the Maccann succeeded.

 

Dirge, to describe yourself as a Wheatstone Duet player would, therefore, make you somewhat unique, which I’m sure you are but not necessarily in this context.

 

I shall continue to refer to myself as a Maccann player.

 

Have fun

 

I think it's probably all wrong. When the Wheatstone duet I was talking about was being discussed someone posted a note layout and it was a small 'Maccan'. Nothing less. I looked at that and thought "I could play that straight off" and that's the reason I wish I'd bid on it. I don't want to start collecting instruments I can't play. So the Prof extended it. That's all; he made no changes to it, just added round the edges. That's not rocket science; duet players have been having more buttons fitted seeking larger ranges in all sorts of ways since they began.

 

Indeed it explained the curious layout of the things, I used to think "That Maccan, what a clever man to design this keyboard. How on earth did he create something so irregular that works so well." Now I know he just added bits round the edge of the Wheatstone layout, and the inconsistencies that I believe firmly are positive were suddenly explained; they just happened.

 

Then I'm also pretty confident that I picked up somewhere that Wheatstone never called it a Maccan when they made them; they were just duets to them.

 

The thing about maccans is there aren't many people who know much about them. So if Neil Wayne writes something inaccurate no one will challenge it and everyone is happy in their ignorance. When I first joined in on Cnet it happened here; people repeated the most utter b@llocks about duets as gospel because no one knew any better, or was even interested enough to think about it hard.

 

 

Nice piece Malcolm. I must find out if he came to Napier. Thanks for that. Why WERE you reading ancient copies of the Otago Herald?

[tony]

I think it's probably all wrong. When the Wheatstone duet I was talking about was being discussed someone posted a note layout and it was a small 'Maccan'. Nothing less. I looked at that and thought "I could play that straight off" and that's the reason I wish I'd bid on it. I don't want to start collecting instruments I can't play. So the Prof extended it. That's all; he made no changes to it, just added round the edges. That's not rocket science; duet players have been having more buttons fitted seeking larger ranges in all sorts of ways since they began.

 

 

 

This is probably one of the Maccann copies that Wheatstone made after the Maccann patent had expired. I seem to remember reading that Wheatstone’s first published price list for a duet was around 1910. I may be wrong about this though.

 

I think Wheatstone did publish a price list for a Double Duet around 1850, but that's a different animal altogether.

 

“Fine-quality Maccann-system instruments were also made by Wheatstone & Co. after Maccann's patent expired in 1898, but Wheatstone never used Maccann's name to describe them“.

 

http://www.concertina.com/maccann-duet/

Edited June 20, 2012 by tony

[Dirge]

 

This is probably one of the Maccann copies that Wheatstone made after the Maccann patent had expired. I seem to remember reading that Wheatstone’s first published price list for a duet was around 1910. I may be wrong about this though.

 

I think Wheatstone did publish a price list for a Double Duet around 1850, but that's a different animal altogether.

 

“Fine-quality Maccann-system instruments were also made by Wheatstone & Co. after Maccann's patent expired in 1898, but Wheatstone never used Maccann's name to describe them“.

 

http://www.concertina.com/maccann-duet/

No no; this was an 1850's instrument, that's why I was interested. Here we go; covers the lot, really. That's not the one for sale recently but it has links to keyboard layouts and lots more; tells more or less the whole story.

 

Glad you found the source for the second bit.

[tony]

OK Dirge, thanks for that, I'm up to date now.

 

I'm still a Maccann player though.

[Irene S.]

Apparently Professor MacCann toured New Zealand in 1902/03 with Rickard's Vaudeville Company as a support act for the famous strong man Eugen Sandow.

 

I have this vision of Sandow working out with an 81 key..... No, that's too frightening for words!

 

MC

 

 

I found this paper some time ago about the tour with Eugene Sandow. It makes the interesting suggestion that women could use the excuse of wishing to listen to the concertina when really they were there to see Sandow in all his glory. (Be aware that there are only one or two sentences about Maccann in the middle of the article)

 

http://www.api-netwo...jas71_daley.pdf

 

And herewith a newspaper cutting from the period.

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=EP19021202.2.48

 

 

Edited June 20, 2012 by Irene S

[hjcjones]

My comment about his professorship was toung-in-cheek. It is, as Ango-Irishman points out, a job description rather than an academic qualification, and was used in many different fields to claim expertise, not just in music. To this day, fencing masters are still known as "Professor". So I wouldn't hold that against him.

[Dirge]

That Sandow business is fun.

 

By 1903 the Prof had been rather eclipsed by the next generation of duet players, I think. (Eric Clapton again) he was probably happy with second bill.

[Chris Drinkwater]

To this day, fencing masters are still known as "Professor". So I wouldn't hold that against him.

 

 

As are Punch and Judy men.

 

Chris

[Anglo-Irishman]

To this day, fencing masters are still known as "Professor". So I wouldn't hold that against him.

 

Whereby we must bear in mind that the terminology of fencing is based on French, and "professeur" is the French word for (school) teacher ...

 

Cheers,

John

[Wolf Molkentin]

So Professor Maccann is no isolated case!

Prof. Maccann as one of the likes of "Karl Theodor Maria Nikolaus Johann Jacob Philipp Franz Joseph Sylvester Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg"?

 

I'd rather think cheerfully of the rare "Byrd" Professor Longhair instead...

[Anglo-Irishman]

So Professor Maccann is no isolated case!

Prof. Maccann as one of the likes of "Karl Theodor Maria Nikolaus Johann Jacob Philipp Franz Joseph Sylvester Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg"?

 

Precisely the one I was thinking of! But let's face it: with a name like that, who really needs a "Dr." in front of it?

 

Cheers,

John

[Dirge]

So a bit of scurrilous conjecture:

 

The boy Professor Maccan is given an old Wheatstone duet by his dad. I suggest this because if he'd learnt on an English the spur would not have been there to develop his duet. As he progresses he does what many duet players do and gets frustrated with the range of the thing. He goes to a maker and has an instrument made which adds to the range by extending the system he already knows. He's the first to do this but it's all pretty clear and Wheatstone would, I suggest, have put the keys in exactly the same places if they'd been doing it.

 

Then he decides it's rather effective so he patents it. Wheatstone's duet had been off the catalogue for 40 years so the patent examiner doesn't know about it and the patent is granted.

 

Maccan goes to Lachenal. He goes to Lachenal because he knows that Wheatstone will not be gracious about his 'new' invention. Lachenal see some commercial properties (I think the std 46 key Lach was the 19c Elise; knocked out in numbers as the easy entry model) and also a chance to really 'stick it' to Wheatstone. Once more they'll be making money off Wheatstone's invention but this time they can even legislate to stop Wheatstone themselves doing the same. Presumably Macan got a royalty, so they could test out the market with little loss and enormous satisfaction!

 

I'd like to know if Lachenal made Maccan's first instrument and were in on the racket right from the start. "Oh this is interesting Mr Maccan; have you thought of patenting it?" says the man from Lachenals with an impish grin. I wouldn't be at all surprised.

[felix castro]

To this day, fencing masters are still known as "Professor". So I wouldn't hold that against him.

 

Whereby we must bear in mind that the terminology of fencing is based on French, and "professeur" is the French word for (school) teacher ...

 

Cheers,

John

In spanish also, the word profesor means teacher (school, university, music teacher). Maestro was used years ago with the same meaning, but

Maestro, Master, usually is a more reputed word, as a person that not is only a teacher, he teaches more things, the way of life, etc. in exampleo in martial arts, or a person who is very proficient in the things that he does or in his proffesion, a bull fighter, matador, is a maestro, etc. a "maestro de esgrima", etc.

In spanish is called doctor all the medical doctors, not only a university degree.

Félix Castro

[Anglo-Irishman]

So a bit of scurrilous conjecture:

 

The boy Professor Maccan is given an old Wheatstone duet by his dad. I suggest this because if he'd learnt on an English the spur would not have been there to develop his duet. As he progresses he does what many duet players do and gets frustrated with the range of the thing. He goes to a maker and has an instrument made which adds to the range by extending the system he already knows. He's the first to do this but it's all pretty clear and Wheatstone would, I suggest, have put the keys in exactly the same places if they'd been doing it.

 

Dirge,

What you're conjecturing here is analogous to what happened on the other side of the fence, in the bisonoric, diatonic world. In the beginning there was the rectangular, 20-button German concertina, such as the one in Millais' painting "The Blind Girl." As every schoolboy knows, the German 20-button arrangement was transferred to the hexagonal English concertina body to produce the "Anglo-German" concertina. On both sides of the North Sea, 20 buttons were felt to be limiting, and the Germans developed their large, square Konzertinas - Chemnitzers, Carlsfelders and Bandoneons - while the English developed the 30+ button Anglo-Chromatic. But to this day, there is a central core of 20 buttons that is common to all these types, and which is that of the primitive 20-button instrument.

 

This is indeed reminiscent of your appraisal of the Maccann/Wheatstone layout - the central 20 buttons remaining unchanged.

 

As every schoolboy further knows, all bisonoric concertinas with more than 20 buttons are completely illogical, and it is no wonder that Chemnitzers, Bandoneons and Anglos are each illogical in their own way. The way you talk about the path to the Maccann Duet from the Wheatstone Duett ("Wheatstone would ... have put the keys in exactly the same places") assumes a certain logicality.

 

That set me thinking. I remember in the early days of computers, it was sometimes necessary to throw out a tried and proven "architecture" because it could no longer be adapted to modern needs. Perhaps the answer is that the bisonoric concertinas - which we sometimes call "diatonic" concertinas - are in fact diatonic in architecture, and any attempt to make them capable of chromatic music is going to somehow go against the grain, and require a compromise, and each emerges with a different compromise.

The Wheatstone Duett, on the other hand, had a chromatic architecture, even though, de facto, it only had one sharp - as did the 20-button German!

 

Fascinating!

 

Cheers,

John

[Dirge]

 

Fascinating!

 

Cheers,

John

 

Glad it's not just me.

 

Starting with the original core fixed because it's already what is known, and then adding the next octaves after the event for 'best fit' explains why the innermost octaves of the thing have an almost Anglo style 1324 124 1 fingering when elsewhere octaves are fingered 1324 1324. As far as I'm concerned one of the more subtle things about 'the Maccan system' is the way octaves are often not directly above each other. Playing 2 notes directly above each other and separated by space is not easy to do in series, or worked in with other notes and this avoids the problem to a large degree. I admired the design and could not imagine how the originator worked this out without having ever played one in anger. Now I know. He didn't work it out, it just happened that way.

 

The other curiosity is why the system was regularised later on. This throws the baby out with the bathwater for me, but clearly Wheatstone didn't think so. Perhaps by the 1930's they could see that their 'professional' market had gone and they felt that making it accessible for amateur players was more important than worrying about nuances of play.