How loud is the concertina?

[Jody Kruskal]

My 2 cents worth...

 

I play Jefferies Anglo instruments mostly and these are known as screamers. When I play in small groups or to accompany myself singing, I have to hold back and play as quietly as possible. This means not only minimum bellows pressure but as simple an accompaniment as possible and sometimes a simplified melody as well. On the other hand... in a noisy bar session I can certainly be heard on my Jefferies, with lots of buttons going and the bellows pumping... I make an awful racket if I want to.

 

In general, quiet playing is harder than loud, as the concertina seems to "like" being played loudly. As has been mentioned, the better instruments have a greater dynamic range with an extended range into the quiet end. My Morse C/G is a mid level hybrid and it's quite loud too. I had to send it back when I first got it, to get the voicing equalized for the quiet end of things. They were very happy to do the job at the Button Box and now it plays quite well. My point here is that any concertina can benefit from expert set up.

 

Playing quietly on concertina is a skill that I think of as advanced technique but very good to learn early on. Beginners, at first... your fingers and bellows have to learn where to go. Only then can you work on dynamics.

 

Quiet playing is well worth learning how to do, but I don't think it comes naturally on the Anglo concertina especially, and it takes work and confidence to accomplish. I keep on working on this aspect of playing to this day. Well worth the effort too, as quiet playing extends the dynamic range of any concertina from entry level to the best. I suggest that you not worry about some few low notes not speaking too well at low volumes and practice playing as quietly as possible. That's what I do as an experienced player and it serves me well.

Edited May 31, 2012 by Jody Kruskal

[kevin toner]

My 2 cents worth...

 

I play Jefferies Anglo instruments mostly and these are known as screamers. When I play in small groups or to accompany myself singing, I have to hold back and play as quietly as possible. This means not only minimum bellows pressure but as simple an accompaniment as possible and sometimes a simplified melody as well. On the other hand... in a noisy bar session I can certainly be heard on my Jefferies, with lots of buttons going and the bellows pumping... I make an awful racket if I want to.

 

In general, quiet playing is harder than loud, as the concertina seems to "like" being played loudly. As has been mentioned, the better instruments have a greater dynamic range with an extended range into the quiet end. My Morse C/G is a mid level hybrid and it's quite loud too. I had to send it back when I first got it, to get the voicing equalized for the quiet end of things. They were very happy to do the job at the Button Box and now it plays quite well. My point here is that any concertina can benefit from expert set up.

 

Playing quietly on concertina is a skill that I think of as advanced technique but very good to learn early on. Beginners, at first... your fingers and bellows have to learn where to go. Only then can you work on dynamics.

 

Quiet playing is well worth learning how to do, but I don't think it comes naturally on the Anglo concertina especially, and it takes work and confidence to accomplish. I keep on working on this aspect of playing to this day. Well worth the effort too, as quiet playing extends the dynamic range of any concertina from entry level to the best. I suggest that you not worry about some few low notes not speaking too well at low volumes and practice playing as quietly as possible. That's what I do as an experienced player and it serves me well.

 

Indeed a skill,

 

Slightly on the same track: my granddad said playing silently was one of the stipulated ‘tina exercises from his band master uncle.

 

One quite night recently, a couple of weeks ago, I decided to play, but not air in the normal way.

 

I lost voicing at times but I was simply practising fingering not bellowing for the stipulated dynamics in the score.

 

What I discovered was a strange reluctance of the traffic not to become exacerbated along with the ‘tina.

 

When I decide to up the volume, for proper bellowing and dynamics, I found that it would eventually start to cause the [at least a couple of block’s worth] fairly distanced traffic to growl on reverb.

 

For the next 30min I enjoyed quietly reverting back to near silent fingering practise to enjoy open windows - with un-growling traffic - to, mainly and firstly, respond to the prevalent clamminess and enjoy a perspiration-free practise.

 

Yes, it’s a good routine, but beware that it’s at the expense of dynamics practise.

 

Back to my discovery on the above ratio (non-aired/aired tina : quite/loud traffic) !

 

Once warming into the former part of the equation given the relief from an apparent drop in the effect from noise pollution, something odd occurred.

 

Apologies - once again for my following elaboration -but this subject incidentally triggers a previous conversation on noise pollution:-

 

A [yes, decommissioned] alarm then went off that was so low a level but annoyingly persistent just above the quietened traffic. I thought to myself that maybe this is to blame for (or plays a part in) the exacerbated traffic noise – really don’t know (?) but when I tried to source it at ground level - with difficulty because of the louder traffic – I eventually spotted it looking like it was on its last legs but was diagonally opposite me and directly across from funnily un-annoyed pub smokers. They of course wouldn’t complain because of the veritable silence compared to the (120db at least) band rehearsals that had once plagued there before at the very same partly vacated office block during a half-year or so construction-free period during most of 2010. My no tolerance approach now of getting directly in touch with the Alarm Co. helped I think, although a similar alarm noise was coming from the same direction recently from within a near neighbouring shop – just one offs really, a mere handful in the last fortnight across the nearby properties, – phew; and not to mention 2 piercing cherry pickers that can only kindly be dampened with a cloth since the contractor said they’re working with them on tilted surfaces! That’s still a big jump in alarm activity I’d say over months passed.

 

When the band rehersals eventually stopped with some council help, that’s when - yet once again - horrendous alarms started to sound off practically until near to noisy demolition works for the latter part of 2011. The council were reluctant to assist in the most piercing of these from a lonely kebab shop onto the back of a rly stn about 3 blocks away [ps addendum: Unsurprising that Network Rail did nothing here! even although it’s likely to be their property. The kebab shop (come integrated but vacated upper bar) was owned and let out by British Rail in the 1960s as something similarly strange – if only I knew this then, just over a year ago, I could have directed the inefficient noise control officer to NR as a first port of call. Why Surprising? They can barely keep their distracting shareholders quiet on any of the occasions where I’ve had to concentrate during a journey, e.g. when I was writing this post on my way to Edinburgh yesterday – not to worry, a conductor apologised to me on behalf of some, nothing new here. I assume “shareholders” because these regulars look like they don’t have the doctor’s salaries necessary to travel on such journeys with such ulterior motives – why can’t they enjoy their journeys rather than clog up the trains – I say reform now and especially if I ever have to regularly commute on their service/s again! - apologies, but if they want to run the railroad they’d proudly built, they can’t ask for dimes to be spared from their car buying Brothers! – That’s how I now have to read the opening line from “Brother can you spare a dime?” 1935, i.e. because of seeing or imagining such aforementioned superficiality on my commute and ergo beyond.]. I went to speak with tenants in fear for their own hearing, but hit a brick wall – probably ran sporadically over a 3 month period. Incidentally a bomb scare was in the main news regarding the shop sometime after the worst of the alarm rigmaroles were been over, I think, not much later. The worst alarm by far (in my recent history) [albeit much quieter so as not to phase pedestrians with the almost year-long continuous ee oo ee oo] was from a disused cinema across from an office block redevelop during 2009-10, which was continuous for most of that year – the trouble of course here was locating it, probably half a block away from me [and of course my other 3 compliant neighbours - pity there's only 4 flats on my entire street of mainly offices]. Again I contacted the council: more on behalf of the poor all night security workers who’d be closest to the source for much of it – ie even although that contractor was the bain of my life after a demolition when rebuilding a multi-storey frame with around ten musical hoists all alarmed to the hilt – imagine one of these noise alerted pedestrian traffic lights not ever stopping because of there being so many acting at any one point...

 

Have to get back to work, will resume conversation another time, sorry for any ensuing incoherences!

Edited June 1, 2012 by kevin toner

[kevin toner]

I thought I'd share a couple more of these incoherences, given my current dabbling in such curiosities.

 

[for the record, I'm totally on top of it all, despite the noise officer fleeing and not ever getting back to me on the thumps - yes, the same noise officer who dealt didn't deal with the above [deeply disturbing] kebab shop alarm amongst other things. Nothing surprising there, eh!

 

I have a place I can sit where it doesn't go through me - phew!

 

I think the floor bounces, which occurred all day sporadically today on average every 10-15mins or so, is too much for one human. I suspect some kind of machinery in the shops basement is perhaps to blame as it does occur during that particular shop’s hours only. I’m guessing this as I put my ear around many surfaces to try and catch an instance, but what I heard sounded extremely powerful but too distant to be touching my actual floor or walls.

 

I will of course keep up my ear detectors until I get warmer, which is why I’m suspecting it’s a basement source for the moment. I believe that shop has two basements as I’ve seen staff enter the close and because they look like they’ve got an in-shop basement too.

 

I may be wrong, but it’s seems a little too obvious to me.

 

There is of course an historical connection with the upstairs neighbour and the shop staff below, which has dwindled in recent times. Who knows what can happen if you’ve been sandwiched between such people. I’m curious how shop staff can even afford such luxury as I struggled to acquire a mortgage on one of these flats on a reasonably paid professional wage in 2006 (5 years after renting).

 

Never make a dime that way (well looky here,_) He never heared a word I say![/i] from "Lazybones". I heared him though! The Ted Lewis version is quite natty in spite of being improvised.

 

Paul Robeson of course sing “... better mind the word I say!” rather than retreat to “...never heared the word I say!”

 

The last 3 consecutive (short term) upstairs neighbours or so have in fact been the first, in the last 6 or so, not to have some kind of apparent connection with the shop or its staff, which became less obvious per neighbour change.

 

The local church (who share halls to the rear) is of course a rendezvous point for incoming international students (or so it wants to be) as per its flashing signs on the high street once to that effect. Perhaps it is they (who once and probably still do have a connection with the famous friendly society who once owned the building between the halls and mine; and probably much of the block before selling off...) who through their connections have given the flat over to the occasional migrant student or worker? Churches do network globally so I wouldn’t be surprised.

 

I’m probably barking up the wrong tree though!

 

Interestingly, that very same friendly society still appears to be addressed here at where the supposed travel agents above the restaurant were!

 

I’m saying nothing, if these are the people behind these onslaughts. Even if I wanted to ask, who would I say “please stop the purgatory” to, which thousand or so of them?

 

Now, back to my coherent self once again, until something new again crops up to distract oneself!

 

As a noise officer once rightly asserted recently "no one has a right to silence"!

 

"If you can't beat them join them" Where's my bagpipes then, might as well play something I can hear properly!

[kevin toner]

...That’s how I now have to read the opening line from “Brother can you spare a dime?” 1935, i.e. because of seeing or imagining such aforementioned superficiality on my commute and ergo beyond...

 

 

...who once and probably still do have a connection with the famous friendly society who once owned the building between the halls and mine; and probably much of the block before selling off...) who through their connections might possibly have given the flat over to the occasional migrant student or worker? Churches do network globally so I wouldn’t be surprised.

 

I’m probably barking up the wrong tree though!

 

Interestingly, that very same friendly society still appears to be addressed here at where the supposed travel agents above the restaurant were!

 

I’m saying nothing, if these are the people behind these onslaughts. Even if I wanted to ask, who would I say “please stop the purgatory” to, which thousand or so of them?...

 

Friendly socs are naturally as you might imagine my top suspect, although veritably my [perhaps cheek-in-tongue] imagination. My biggest obstacle in steering away from this is having the queen catalogue totally embedded into the back of my brain, firstly unintentionally as a teen. Let me explain as below. I’ve also raised BCYSaD above as being related to my point. There was curiously no popular recordings of that song after its first popular releases in 1935, i.e. until it became a standard in the 1970s.

 

[but first, a little on my Queen knowledge: In early-middle-ish ’76, when 5 years old, my mum asked me from the top 100 in a record store, ‘which one do you want then?’ I fought of course to have the “one with those 2 very long words”, by then at probably around No. 60 or so, which I seemed to disown as I’d forgotten that I wasn’t getting that same captivation that the famous video brought. I’ve long considered this record to be my mum’s until she reminded me of that escapade in later years. She’d of course reinstated my faith in Queen during 1977 when she’d bought the single WAtC despite being a more dance orientated mum, i.e. when I think I wore out the B-side with the bouncing of my stomp occasionally – the best/toughest thing I thought since “I'm the Leader of the Gang (I Am)” by Glitter in 1974, which my aunt had kindly bought for fun I think and left behind – lucky me! That was the last of queen for me until 1984 when I felt compelled to invest [gradually] in their entire catalogue, i.e. until “Made in Heaven”, which I was initially reluctant to buy because of its long delay after the frontman’s death in 1991. I bought all their songbooks too except unfortunately half haven’t been returned to me since lent or left with others. I’d actually rediscovered their recordings to be quite brilliant despite a long hiatus enjoying their songs through playing the songbooks on guitar/voice.

 

Something shared between the 1930s and Queen, I feel, is something that I call the ‘silly-song’!

 

The war killed those off with doo-wop etc. ; and then came Dylan etc. to bring in complexity again, albeit a complexity that I’ve never been able to comprehend despite appreciating his sound. I think I get why he’s called the best. But for me, I prefer the ‘silly-song’ songwriters’ complexities. Societally speaking, I may be alone there, in the UK, where Queen have generally been considered uncool, despite inventing Hardcore - I’d say a decade apart prototypically - years before even Punk surfaced. They’ve really not sold more than 300M but much more – just think every queen album was in Argentina’s top 10 at around wartime between Argentina and UK. “Love of my Life” was in the Brazilian singles charts 2 years, but you only ever hear how it fared [slightly less successfully] in the Argentine charts. These facts surely mean kids not lending their records and having to buy their own – Wow! Strange facts can be found here – verified though, I’d say so, watch LoML sung live e.g.in Sao Paulo or Rio where Freddie doesn’t even have to sing a note, while the foreign diction exceeds that of our own.

 

http://www.aussiequeens.com/stats/4%20Queen%20Facts%20and%20Figures.html

 

Sorry for the interlude on my Queen perspective – Incidentally, some Queen songbook stuff is concertina compatible, where the transcriber’s have fleshed out some of the notation, but generally speaking it is unfortunately written with single notes albeit luscious guitar chord stipulations/tabs

 

Enough about Queen for the moment]

 

Now back to my storyline:

 

But I’m going to cite simply one of the several queen examples of where I read Friends (as pertaining to something synonymous with Friendly Societies, i.e. the one beside me in particular definitely as the very first and foremost perhaps...) albeit could you blame me {ps plus one from Mercury as Duetist with Caballe]?

 

One other word that correlates between Queen and the 1930s and perhaps some of the earlier music hall material that might signify a similar synonym of a word is the use of the star, which I’ll get to when I reach Star Dust in my 1930s songbook.

 

Right Friends, here we go!

 

PAL = FRIEND (Brother can’t you remember they called me AL it was AL all the time Buddy Don’t you remember ’m your PAL, Brother can you spare a dime)

 

"We are the Champions" (My FRIENDS)

 

[ps: and finally "Barcelona" by Mercury/Caballe, when he was in his fittest state definitely "...if god is willing (x3), we will meet again some day" ergo perhaps a reference to a possible performance to launch the Bahrcelona Olympics. In my imagination this equates as friends being associative to god, not God per se but the religion on the ground doing the groundwork, because of the last line in the song "... if god is willing, FRIENDS until the end"

 

Of course as per my above quote there is actually a relationship between the Soc and Church historically and probably continually.

 

Given that Mercury wrote "Is this the world we created" perhaps referencing the inequality in the world inter alia several other songs questioning the distribution of earnings, perhaps whether his or performers in general[Cobain did say "Rape me, My FRIENDS, I'm not the only one" in "Rape me"!; then my imagination would point towards Mercury perhaps thinking that if his taxes were straying towards the once philanthropic Friendly Socs (?) Che[e]cks out for me anyway although everyone's different [i do however remember reading that policies from Friendly Societies were not subject to financial scrutiny in the normal way because they were run by their benefactors, such as family orientated businesses, which might be why they've been so popular] - I may be wrong! ;

 

So I imagine that these lines in Barcelona were a warning saying : unless religion/friends change their way (ergo "is/are willing") then he'll not be turning up to sing when the games actually come around, whether by contracting Aids or [here's a suggestion] Hunger strike! Within those 4 years Mercury went from his fittest state to his weakest.

 

Why not?, again I say in an imaginative sense: goalposts have been moved by big money-making machine concerns in the past vis-a-vis such 'silly-song' lyrics. For example, not long after Queen were starting to become popular, the English First Division decided to name change to Premier division the line " boars of the 1st Div" as one of the several 'slurs' in the song "Death on Two Legs" 1975, which was when Queen were not being remunerated by their management force.

 

Perhaps this Olyimpics [or the next Commonwealth Games in my city in 2014]: we can "...let the songs begin, let the music play..."

 

Apologies if my imagination sounds confusing, it is my own personal imagination after all, but please feel free to borrow any of it if you've been stuffed by anything similar due to your surroundings, although I'd doubt it. Perhaps could happen in NY (?)

 

If my imagination had any truth in it, then we'd be as well to make our country truthfully communist rather than have a communism lurking under the capitalism.

 

Calling all Political Scientists!

Edited June 1, 2012 by kevin toner

[Jody Kruskal]

Hi Kevin,

 

I live in NYC and it is constantly noisy here. Even in my somewhat quiet basement where I record, I can hear the trucks accelerate from the stop sign at the corner... and you can too if you listen closely to my CDs. Kinda sucks, if you know what I mean, and I guess you do from your description of your suffering. For me though, even though I hear it, I just ignore it and it simply goes away. That's how it works for me. Sure, I notice the noise after spending a week in the country where this constant urban bombardment of vibration is simply absent. Outside of the city, real silence can be almost deafening. I know a man who lives alone out there, he runs his TV all day and night just for the company and to drive the silence away.

 

When I come home to the city after being away, I really hear how distracting and unpleasant the sound scape is... then in a few days... I just stop noticing. It becomes background noise and I just don't hear it. I think you must be suffering from a hyper sensitivity to this sound pollution coupled with the lack of an ability to tune it out. How horrible for you! I suggest a relocation to a quieter abode.

 

Also, I would appreciate it if you could stay on topic.

 

Tell me more about silent practice. Is it really totally silent? If so, how do you know if you are pressing the correct buttons or not? Late at night I sometimes try to play almost silently (so as not to disturb the sleeping folks within earshot) but find it rather unsatisfying. The bellows is so much about how I play. Using just buttons seems... crazy!

[JimLucas]

Is the concertina a good park instrument, or would the sound get on people's nerves?

One thing mentioned in several of the replies is that while the concertina can be played quietly, doing so takes some practice. So while it may be a "good park instrument" once you've reached that stage, you may find yourself wanting to avoid practicing in public while you're still learning to practice quietly.

 

However, I don't think that should take too long.

 

P.S. Did you get my PM? Will I see you tomorrow?

[kevin toner]

Hi Kevin,

 

I live in NYC and it is constantly noisy here. Even in my somewhat quiet basement where I record, I can hear the trucks accelerate from the stop sign at the corner... and you can too if you listen closely to my CDs. Kinda sucks, if you know what I mean, and I guess you do from your description of your suffering. For me though, even though I hear it, I just ignore it and it simply goes away. That's how it works for me. Sure, I notice the noise after spending a week in the country where this constant urban bombardment of vibration is simply absent. Outside of the city, real silence can be almost deafening. I know a man who lives alone out there, he runs his TV all day and night just for the company and to drive the silence away.

 

When I come home to the city after being away, I really hear how distracting and unpleasant the sound scape is... then in a few days... I just stop noticing. It becomes background noise and I just don't hear it. I think you must be suffering from a hyper sensitivity to this sound pollution coupled with the lack of an ability to tune it out. How horrible for you! I suggest a relocation to a quieter abode.

 

Also, I would appreciate it if you could stay on topic.

 

Tell me more about silent practice. Is it really totally silent? If so, how do you know if you are pressing the correct buttons or not? Late at night I sometimes try to play almost silently (so as not to disturb the sleeping folks within earshot) but find it rather unsatisfying. The bellows is so much about how I play. Using just buttons seems... crazy!

 

Hi Jody,

 

Yesterday was the first day, in a year, not to induce a thump during shop opening times despite the shop fully opening and closing as normal – in fact the last door slam (1 of 3 that got progressively louder and significant over 5 minutes or so at 6pm), as powerful as it was, hadn’t come with a corresponding floor bounce thump.

 

Today however the thumps are back in action and are worst when I’m grounded in this writing position. If standing it’s not as unnerving! So whatever caused it to stop yesterday, I hope it returns, because I write in the middle of the room quite a lot. If I’m lying down in the other room during the day with all the doors open I can sense the thump from a distance too. At the moment there’s around 1 per every 5-10 minutes at least... Dare I play concertina in the middle of the floor. [ps: after a half hour of this it appears to have disappeared again - great, now I can focus editing this...]

 

As for hypersensitivity:

 

I wouldn’t rule it out. However, I’ve tried a drug that was said would help combat the hypersensitivity, which was rather pointless and made me feel tired and didn’t in fact dispel any of the agitation caused by the NP.

 

I may perhaps have Hyperacusis, but it is not obvious generally or from recent hearing tests. I’ve to go back to the doctor if I ever get a sense that the ambient outside noise sources are markedly louder than normal, which might be construed as a form.

 

An instance did actually happen last Easter Monday, after I awoke, when I was quite taken aback by the seemingly remarkable loudness increase emanating from typical sources. I went out to detect where an unacceptably nagging hiss was emanating from (at circa 7am? not much later) and arrived at the extract fans around the lane from me on the back of a multi-storey office block. When I got to it a horrendously loud double-decker swished past at the other end, which indicated that the extract wasn’t loud at all – it was simply sensitivity. On my way back to my flat that very same bus roaring its way round its route passed my street further down had once again reminded me that I was suffering from sensitivity here. I could sense it once again 5 days later when visiting a relative not far from an expressway, which I could of course hear from 1K away on my approach. By the time I got an appt - to check/test for anything - my hearing had come back to normal. The consultant updated my notes so that I wouldn’t be held off for so long again if it reoccurred.

 

I’m like you I think: I forget about it and it goes away! I’m no stranger to living beside noise – try being a neighbour to shipyards (as I did in the mid to late 1990s) – where your windows are practically in the yard; or beside an expressway to one of the busiest (if not the busiest tunnel) in Europe – where your gable was created to make way for the expressway/tunnel route, which swept around the flat (Trust me: to move here when the carriageway finally made its connection to the M8), which I did from 7 years old. Before that I stayed in 3 Drive Road (from 1 years old) which greeted most of the tunnel traffic before I moved – figures eh! If you type/key in “Govan” on Google Maps you’ll instantly see the terribly dangerous roundabout that faced my wonderful tenement flat and claimed a corner of the impressive Elder Park at the 2 to 5 Drive Road block. [trivia: formerly aka Mansion Gdns; and Royal Terr. too prior to Govan’s annexation in 1912 into Glasgow, which of course already had a Royal Terr.]

 

Our subway is also particularly loud in Glasgow compared to most. So if I was sensitive to noise, you wouldn’t see me dead in there.

 

In fact, I am naturally insensitive to noise, I think perhaps because of the loud surroundings in my life to date.

 

Life’s a mystery, eh!

 

You're right on silence: it is also apparently not good for Hyperacusis if you have it.

 

In conclusion: I think I've had a mere couple of instances and that what I'm suffering from generally is slightly different from this. I will let you know otherwise if a diagnosis should come to light though.

 

I'll listen out for the background NP on your recordings!

 

You asked about 'silent playing': I was doing a form of this last night (i.e. No2 - where fingering is the paramount priority). There are of course 3 types.

 

1) button depressions nothing else; and

2) ditto except with bellowing to engage a sense of mechanically operating/activating the instrument to feel for notes whether or not aired; and

3) ditto except with bellowing to the desired quietness without cutting out.

 

I don't know which of the first 2 my Granddad was referring to, probably both. My Granddad was probably referring to all 3 in fact as his quiet playing/fading techniques were as impressive as his standard playing. I don't ever remember him doing long passages of quietness, but when he ever did (and where the environment allowed) it was indeed impressive to hear.

 

Thanks again Jody

Edited June 2, 2012 by kevin toner

[kevin toner]

...

 

I'll listen out for the background NP on your recordings!

 

...

 

 

Jody, something just came in to my mind there, as it's kind of related:

 

There's a song by Buffalo Tom called "Thown" 2007, with a great line in the song "...the cars go by too fast...".

 

If you listen on about 20-30 secs after it's finished you'll hear [if spotify have not edited it out] cars playing over their background demo with people talking - probably one of the band members talking with daughter in a parked car with the demo in the background. [ps: I also recommend the demo version of their "Hawks and Sparrows", which have them trying to play over screaming kids. At the end of the song: a kid then says "we're now going out", but is not on Spotify yet though

 

I curiously should have discovered this album earlier since Spotify had appeared to be leaving a gap in the bands discography between their last and 3rd last albums.

 

I ordered it as a self-xmas present to myself and received just after the 2012 New Year. Within a couple of months Spotify then decide to upload the album - I'm not very lucky, am I!

 

It's not just Queen I like, these guys are great too already in some ways. [ps: I believe they're in your neck of the woods relatively speaking, but Boston based I think, I appreciate rock might not be your cup of tea though, very sorry for this]

Edited June 2, 2012 by kevin toner

[kevin toner]

...

 

Tell me more about silent practice. Is it really totally silent? If so, how do you know if you are pressing the correct buttons or not? Late at night I sometimes try to play almost silently (so as not to disturb the sleeping folks within earshot) but find it rather unsatisfying. The bellows is so much about how I play. Using just buttons seems... crazy!

 

At this stage, I can't really enjoy practising near silence because of the exacerbated NP, unless it is simply unexacerbated NP on the odd occassion as discussed.

 

So I go for (of late) practising as low as possible, which could entail notes cutting out here and there.

 

I'm like you, I don't like the completely silent, merely, button tap form of silent practise: as 'hearing is believing'.

 

That said, for me on EC, I might actually explore this exercise more often as I probably shouldn't be airing as much as I do when in a state of intermediate exploration. Ah, I do do this to an extent already as I'm working out the 'fall into place fingering', but it's for a mere moment, then I eagerly launch into airing my quickly learned fingering option.

 

I should perhaps do more balancing between what I un-air play and when. Let's ironically call it "air-concertina"! like air guitar.

 

ps: As per your quote, I forgot to answer on '...how do you know if you are pressing the correct buttons or not?'

 

I've always been able to take a minimal number of glances, then get on with it. When I'm sight reading it's not really an issue. I don't do everything by memory as I do have a good map of the layout in my mind. Let call it 'mind-reading'!

Edited June 2, 2012 by kevin toner

[kevin toner]

Just before we depart the subject of noise pollution: here is a link to some of the buildings I've been talking about that have been thrown up quite quickly

 

http://photos.kevinscotttoner.co.uk/#53.20

 

You'll also see in this impromptu gallery: the Sq [with Olympic logo] where I heard the aforementioned pipe band sessions.

 

ps: big progress today (4 June) after I posted this update. About 2-3 hours ago when I picked up for practising (believe me, normally, this is a veritable battle over the exacerbated NP), I experienced an unexcacerbated period of NP. Yes the NP was still there in extremely heavy dosages but was not exacerbated.

 

During practice, I heard all of the sounds that would usually throw my concentration, but unamplified, you name it, there was: site hammering and concreting works; distant house music and roaring traffic; with undoubtedly Harley Davidsons; etc.

 

None of this NP came before the concertina sound, i.e. in the same way that caused me to burst into dry tears of elation a couple of months ago. I feel like Nelson Mandela once again, but will it be for a mere day again, I wonder?

 

Having said that, there isn't the same elation this time round as it's not a first. I must have been injected with a certain hope during the first time it occurred over 2 months ago.

 

I of course searched for the standard buzzing within a part of my partition walling to check if this was related, none though. So it could be related. Funnily I did hear a momentary heavy drilled noise high up directly upon my wall (next to the offices) after I got back from today's aforementioned photo-shoot. Whether that had anything to do with the improvement I dunno! Let's just say it was Hyperacusis all along and hope that it doesn't return. It's as if it's been something that literally turns off...

 

There were just 2 bursts of pure garlic today in the flat and 1 burst of dirty extract odour that quickly cleared because of having the front windows open. Yet no such thing yesterday! I don't really mind this anyway as long as the Hyperacusis stays off -

 

I thought that my finger tips were hitting their targets much more precisely as a result - freaky or what? I'll update my song progress on the music/teaching forum in a moment.

 

ps: spoke to soon!, but rather than continue clogging up here on this post I've updated my bass/treble practise post on the teaching/learning forum instead. Good luck Tripwire on your new Jackie concertina; apologies that you fell upon a not so straight-forward topic such as perceived loudness, etc. - we appeared to merely skim over the subject really. Hopefully, more of us will share our experiences to continue the dialogue - perhaps a science paper could ensue..., cheers

Edited June 6, 2012 by kevin toner

[Tripwire]

Just a little update from me about my forays into concertinas.

 

Thanks to Jim Lucas, I got to try out a concertina the other day. My concerns about noisiness seem to have been unnecessary, and I found the concertina to be interesting and worth trying out. I've decided to buy a Jackie concertina. At the moment I'm trying to find somewhere to buy it in Sweden, or somewhere that will ship to Sweden. Hopefully I will have it in my hands soon and be able to start playing.

[kevin toner]

...Whoa, long post! It seems you are lucky to have such a good instrument, and unlucky to have such a frustrating aural environment. I hope you find out what causes the exacerbated noise. Noise pollution is certainly a testing thing to live with...

 

Perhaps it’s this (?) as unfolds

 

Still ‘completely mystifies’ me though!

 

Please forgive the following babbling on, which there’s no need to read. I’ve wrote it simply to get it off my chest and is probably incoherent anyway

 

• note the ps later however: as during writing this I've discovered something associative to the noise, i.e. my fridge noise!!!!, which I'll come to of course later. However, now back to the unfolding story.
  

So: here goes!

 

During the mental exhaustion of my last practise session I decided to pivot my sashes fully out and get a feel for the noise for a while rather than close it out through concentration.

 

What do I hear? Horrendous unrelenting traffic and site noises, yes.

 

Then after a spell with less traffic, a blast from the past appeared as evidenced under the normal noise, which became more noticeable the more I focussed on it.

 

In fact I’ve videoed a couple of instances on you tube

and

 

I described the noise to a site manager or agent and he was none the wiser but said he’d find out for me from what item of plant it might be coming from.

 

I don’t think it’s from plant though, but rather something that’s been here for years, which I first noticed in around 2008 usually after just awakened before dawn. It previously had an even higher almost unrecognisable pitch.

 

As you’ll hear from my video yesterday it has a recognisable tone albeit very high pitched. Anyone know what purpose this is for?

 

Yester year its tone has been hard to detect, especially for the noise officer whom I once called out, who claimed that certain birds can sound like equipment. A CPN in 2009/10 told me that you can hear strange things like that just after and before sleeping, so this previous instance at tea time baffled me enough to call the noise officer in 2010. It also had a more recognisable tone on this occasion too compared with 2008. The original 2008 sound had more of a pronounced click to the sound with less tone to it, which is a little morse code-ish and goes like:-

 

t

t---t---t---t

trrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

t-t-t-t-t-t-t

t

ttttttttt

t

 

the “r” was so rapid – practically continuous – and there’s no way it could have been a bird.

 

This time around though: it was the exact same rhythms but with a lower audible frequency akin to that of a high pitched alarm, but with absolutely no undulations whatsoever as you might expect from conventional alarms.

 

I experience sometimes a very occasional (fortunately infrequent) similar type sound, which I know is in my own head quite distinct from the outside noise. I explained to the CPN a kind of high frequency “eet” sound/noise that I knew was similar but different sporadically. In fact, months later an online BBC news article quoted the famous John Cage anechoic chamber experiment, which described a high frequency sound pertaining to nerves and a low frequency sound pertaining to blood flow. I couldn’t find the article so I’ve provided this link from NYU’s ITP:

 

http://itp.nyu.edu/classes/ahsl-fall2010/2010/12/09/john-cage-on-his-experience-in-an-anechoic-chamber/

 

This might explain the occasionally random “eet” sound/noise in my head. Does anyone else get a similar symptom? When I focus on them though they soon disappear!

 

The very real airborne sound that I’ve actually recorded would be a near assimilation if it wasn’t so mechanised sounding. I bet ITP Alumni would know what it is because imaginative use of a sound this noise most certainly is, if it’s not something malfunctioning!

 

• 
   
  [i just heard it there again - 7pm - typing this in a fairly silent environment with the windows shut, but had disappeared when I opened a window perhaps behind the traffic. It doesn’t appear to back with the window closed again. Maybe I should take more time to listen for it. I remember back in 2008, listening in bed just after awake that when I detected it in its formative form, lower rumbly noises seemed to give way. So please forgive me for wanting to know where it’s coming from. [b]PS IT’S MY FRIDGE, WHICH I TURNED OFF AT 8PM UPON HEARING THE NOISE FROM IT SUBTLY, WHEN I TURNED IT BACK ON - THE EXACT SAME CHARACTERISTICS OF THE NOISE WAS THERE - A LITTLE LOUDER: ! PPS 8.15PM : IT APPEARED LOUD OUTSIDE AGAIN THERE MOMENTARILY; I'M GLAD I DECIDED TO TYPE NEAR THE FRIDGE, YIPPEE - SO WHO'S AMPLIFYING IT THEN OUTSIDE????][/b]
  

Judge it for yourself now that I have it recorded - I’ll try to keep a gallery of taped unusual sounds here on my URL once my web-building host gets around to resolving an apparent bug. Meanwhile, I'll have to use my You Tube Channel Kevintoner1.

 

• 
   
  [On this photo-album, expect short clips of e.g. : a dog barking from a van all day right outside my practise space, which happened after the never ending dog barks from above over the same year; upstairs house music; the neighbouring offices which funnily during my difficult and long 1 para. CV resume attempt, which I couldn’t focus on and rightly eventually abandoned, had its rear window open allowing me to hear sporadic Māori type chanting excerises (1, 2, 3, Iyeeght, Iyeeght, Iyeeght with taut neck ligaments) – although I’ve deleted that one; pigeons nesting within the church halls’ offices wall to the rearwhich will cost 3-4k to fix apparently although I’ve not heard it for a while now... ; etc.]
  

I’ve left a photo or two here zooming into boxes and the likes that I think the noise might be possibly emanating from.

 

These are attached to the existing gable across on the site and my own theory is that these devices might be those that are said to be used for deterring juvenile delinquents. It’s said that youths are young enough to register the frequency and hopefully as a result move on.

 

If you know what these boxes are please say. I’ve contacted the building’s factor manager to find out what they are. If you have any ideas meanwhile, please share. Perhaps someone can throw light on it if the factors can’t.

 

As the video has detected the noise too, this tells me I’m not imagining it and it’s neither plant nor birds?

 

When I mike up, shortly, hopefully this’ll overcome all noise intrusions.

 

• 
   
  [Last night was fantastic but alas a nearby painter working at the sill level. If I’m going to have an audience I’d better be well practised first – something downtown society has not permitted since I got extra time on my hands to practise! Painter will finish tonight presumably – so back to work on the tina tomorrow! Ready to make recordings very soon! ]
  

The consolation is that the exacerbated noises will mask my mistaken ridden energies to any passers-by! If only I could hear my practise properly I wouldn’t have to write about all this nonsense – can’t have the best of both worlds though.

 

Even if the noise pollution was to become un-exacerbated from now on, I’m sure that the concertina is quite enough not to be heard by passer-byes and/or even neighbours.

 

Feel free to pass by though because I’m mike-ing up irrespectively of the exacerbated noise.

 

This worked once before for me then I packed it in because I had the confidence to go it alone knowing conversely that I had a much stronger attachment to my instrument than I’d thought.

 

Distractions tend to disassociate you from your instrument...; and perhaps that rocket science called songwriting; chess or snooker etc.! There’s another condition in sports called the “yips”, which I’m hoping I’ve not got the equivalent of in music... Is it called the “yips” in music too? Yip (?) hee hee!

 

Neither are passer-byes (labourers too understandably) etc. silent enough at my particular block. There’s definitely a propensity to yap loud as you pass the flat – Europe’s tallest cinema opposite the Royal Concert hall is nearby so I’ll assume it can only be plain excitement, i.e. something I can now live with given my exposure to seemingly exacerbated noise pollution through the years... It seems to me they’re throwing [not speaking] their voices when passing!

 

If only ‘I’ had a ref who could say “Silence” to the first sign of noise, eh! Dream on I say to myself!

 

I’ll have to wait to sing it when I get to “So deep is the night”, 1939 arranged by Mario Melfi: From Chopin's Étude Op. 10 No. 3, ergo “...No friendly star. To guide me with its light; be still my heart. SILENT lest my love should be returning...”

 

Plenty of fun numbers before I get to that one though. In fact every song in the EMI rendition of “The Thirties” songbook

1. has that aforementioned armoury one needs to practise let alone create while at odds with the outside world.

 

Perhaps it’s me that’s to be silent, not the passer-by!

 

There’s not just armoury in Music:-

 

Try film too: Cronenberg’s “Eastern Promises” gave me great relief by exposing a fictional tight-knit downtown community of shops etc. when in a scene a barber asks a young chav in his possession if he wants a ticket to an important Premiership fixture. The Mafiosi and barber, who were in the middle of some kind of deal, were momentarily disturbed by the sudden and ‘thrown’ nature of the chav’s voice, i.e. a chav/ned who a rival throng of fans wouldn’t chastise in a scene where he openly urinates on a gravestone enroute through the graveyard to the exciting fixture...

 

I say: what fiction Mr. Cronenberg, kind of che[e]cks out (adds up) societally if you ask me!

 

I heard [this morning when writing this] moments ago there the noise coming across louder than normal – so I think it might be something that can be turned up and down unless it’s something mobile. I don’t think I hear it generally because it is often under the ambient noise rather than over it.

 

(1. calling all acousticians: could such a frequency/noise characteristics exacerbate ambient noise)

 

(2. Calling all psychologists: can such a frequency/noise throw or distract concentration no matter how strong minded/willed)

 

(3. calling all technicians: what is the bleepy sound’s purpose)

 

So folks, please listen to the video and tell me what you think the noise is.

 

I’ve explained it to another noise officer who came around to witness and to advise, but alas not being any of the above 1-3, was unable to shed light although he did concur it was unusual and threw some suggestions across as I had: telecoms; antiquated alarms; cctv equipment and powering; you name it; and they’ll all be wrong of course.

 

Will let you know what the factor reveals.

Edited June 13, 2012 by kevin toner

[kevin toner]

...PS IT’S MY FRIDGE, WHICH I TURNED OFF AT 8PM UPON HEARING THE NOISE FROM IT SUBTLY, WHEN I TURNED IT BACK ON - THE EXACT SAME CHARACTERISTICS OF THE NOISE WAS THERE - A LITTLE LOUDER: ! PPS 8.15PM : IT APPEARED LOUD OUTSIDE AGAIN THERE MOMENTARILY; I'M GLAD I DECIDED TO TYPE NEAR THE FRIDGE, YIPPEE - SO WHO'S AMPLIFYING IT THEN OUTSIDE????]

...

 

I may have jumped the gun here. On closer inspection up close to the fridge: it's a very similar sound, but I'm not sure it's exactly the same - it does seem close though.

 

So the question remains: what is near simulating this noise loudly outside, which sounds more like one of the background noises on a fridge?

 

Hopefully, the factor I contacted and/or the site agent will respond with a definite answer... and so the saga continues!

Edited June 13, 2012 by kevin toner

[kevin toner]

...I experience sometimes a very occasional (fortunately infrequent) similar type sound, which I know is in my own head quite distinct from the outside noise. I explained to the CPN a kind of high frequency “eet” sound/noise that I knew was similar but different sporadically. In fact, months later an online BBC news article quoted the famous John Cage anechoic chamber experiment, which described a high frequency sound pertaining to nerves and a low frequency sound pertaining to blood flow. I couldn’t find the article so I’ve provided this link from NYU’s ITP:

 

http://itp.nyu.edu/classes/ahsl-fall2010/2010/12/09/john-cage-on-his-experience-in-an-anechoic-chamber/

 

This might explain the occasionally random but repetitive “eet” sound/noises in my head PS (i.e. at the rate of say a slow - to sometimes medium speed - texter pressing for text). Does anyone else get a similar symptom? When I focus on them though they soon disappear! PS I don't text so I'm guessing that's the equivalent rates from what I've observed on my travels.

 

The very real airborne sound that I’ve actually recorded would be a near assimilation if it wasn’t so mechanised sounding. I bet ITP Alumni would know what it is because imaginative use of a sound this noise most certainly is, if it’s not something malfunctioning! ....

 

Just one more thing on Cage's findings:

 

I just found there accidentally that if I clench my teeth/jaw I can hear a high pitch if I focus hard enough (helps of course if no traffic going by; as I'm not exactly in a anechoic chamber, rather the opposite).

 

Hoping, biologically speaking, I'm not alone there :-)

 

PS Oh: back came the outside bleeps for a second there, merely instantaneously over a couple or so secs. Oh and there goes the fridge one now too: I'd Better get off my long durations on the laptop, writing about such baloney, which can't be healthy and get to bed and later proper practise and work; as I'll be hallucinating these sounds before too long!

Edited June 13, 2012 by kevin toner

[Bruce McCaskey]

Well, any replies will be subjective...

 

A good concertina will be capable of being played quietly. I have practiced in hotels without complaint...

A few years ago I spent quite a lot of time working well away from home and so dwelling in hotels for the better part of two years.  I took a Dipper County Clare with me and tried playing in my hotel room in the evening.  One night I'd been playing for the better part of two hours and along the way lost focus on playing softly.  Not that I was going for "loud," rather I just forgot I was trying to be quiet.  My phone rang about 8 PM and the voice said, "I'm in the room next to you, are you playing the pipes over there?" I clarified that it was concertina, but admitted my guilt.  The caller then said, "It sounds good, but I have to get up at 2 AM and can't get to sleep because I'm too busy tapping my toe to your jigs and reels.  Could you switch to something slow?"  I offered my apologies and started playing out in my car after that.

 

On the topic of this thread, my perspective is that the sound of a concertina seems to easily distinguish itself indoors and carries a considerable distance in quiet outdoor settings.  That said, it tends to become surprisingly indistinguishable within a short distance in outdoor settings if there is much background noise.  Of course the setting, choice of material and quality of playing are huge factors in public acceptance of one's efforts.

[JimLucas]

On the topic of this thread, my perspective is that the sound of a concertina seems to easily distinguish itself indoors and carries a considerable distance in quiet outdoor settings.  That said, it tends to become surprisingly indistinguishable within a short distance in outdoor settings if there is much background noise.

In my experience, not so simple.

Specifically, once at the National Folk Festival at Wolf Trap Farm, I was listening to the music for a contra dance taking place at the bottom of the hill. There were multiple fiddles, guitars, etc., even a few accordions, and one lone concertina. Up close, I couldn't distinguish the concertina at all, but when I climbed to the top of the hill, the concertina was clearly audible and identifiable, while the rest was just background noise.

[Anglo-Irishman]

Up close, I couldn't distinguish the concertina at all, but when I climbed to the top of the hill, the concertina was clearly audible and identifiable, while the rest was just background noise.

 

As you say, Jim, not so simple!

 

There are also cases where you think you can't identify the sound of a particular instrument in an ensemble, but if it stops playing, you notice that it has. Even though your concertina may not ring out in a session, it's still part of the overall mix. There's a difference between solo and ensemble playing!

 

Cheers,

John

[kevin toner]

...As you say, Jim, not so simple!

 

There are also cases where you think you can't identify the sound of a particular instrument in an ensemble, but if it stops playing, you notice that it has. Even though your concertina may not ring out in a session, it's still part of the overall mix. There's a difference between solo and ensemble playing!...

 

When I get round to recording Memories of You, I'll do a mixed in version with actual recordings to compare solo/ensemble.

 

When I play along with recordings its as if I'm part of the band.

 

Won't be long now with these - give me a fortnight. Expect to hear traffic and site works in the background and the occasional miscue from not being able to hear properly...

Edited June 15, 2012 by kevin toner