Andy Holder Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Hi all. Here are my first 60 reed frames. They are just virtual, of course, for the moment! I measured a Wheatstone and have spent far too much time doing a CAD drawing of them. They have a 3 degree angle on the edge and a 2 degree angle on the slot. I've put the clamp round the wrong way so there can be a tag holding both parts to the sheet. Now all I need is a modestly priced laser cutting firm. £200 a sheet? Andrew Edited February 10, 2012 by Andy Holder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Hi Andrew, Very impressing drawings! You are writing: "They have a 3 degree angle on the edge and a 2 degree angle on the slot." Do you think you will find a laser cuter that can do this angles? Would it not be better to find a spare eroding machine that can handle also this angles? I would be interested in getting such a reed set, if you mange to manage to manufacture this set. Best regards, Johann Pascher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I believe their are now laser cutters that can do the angles, water jet cutting is also worth considering . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ghent Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I think Andy means the taper in the long dimensions, not the depth? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Looks good Andy, so ,you are virtually there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Holder Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Hi Andrew, Very impressing drawings! You are writing: "They have a 3 degree angle on the edge and a 2 degree angle on the slot." Do you think you will find a laser cuter that can do this angles? Would it not be better to find a spare eroding machine that can handle also this angles? I would be interested in getting such a reed set, if you mange to manage to manufacture this set. Best regards, Johann Pascher Hi Johann. It needs a 5 axis machine and probably YAG rather than CO2, which can be v. expensive, so hourly rate is high. I'll let you know when it happens. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Holder Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 I believe their are now laser cutters that can do the angles, water jet cutting is also worth considering . I've got a sample of titanium on my key ring that's been waterjet cut. It gives a perfect angle because the jet splays very slightly at the bottom of the cut. The unfortunate thing is that the cut width is near 1mm, so you haven't got quite the accuracy, and of course round corners on the slot which need more finishing. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Holder Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 I think Andy means the taper in the long dimensions, not the depth? Chris I'm still hoping that the blanks will have an angled cut, thus minimising the hand finishing of the slot. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Holder Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share Posted February 10, 2012 Looks good Andy, so ,you are virtually there Haha If only it were that easy to get them made! I've even thought of 3D printing them but I think it's still way too expensive. A further question to all. Why brass? I understand why the original makers would have used brass, nice for hand tooling and stamping. However, brass is problematic for lasers. Is there any reason, in a new instrument, why the frames shouldn't be stainless steel or even mild steel? Any acoustic reason? Cheers Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) I do not know of any acoustic reason why you should not use Stainless Steel. Bells are usually made from a copper based alloy which is probably a Brass so this could have been the reason for the choice of reed shoe material originally. I think that Aluminium alloys would have a musically deadening effect but they were used by concertina makers and I feel these later instruments are not so 'telling' (a tiny bit dull) in tone. My first thought was that stainess steel might add a fair amount to the weight of the instrument but no, it is acutally lighter than brass. Edited February 10, 2012 by Geoff Wooff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP3 Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Another possibility is wire EDM. That's what Wally Carroll uses very successfully and I don't think there's the same radius problem you described. He has even done titanium reed shoes but says that this metal takes far too long on the machine and breaks the wire a lot. Not worth it for the small weight saving. Good luck with your project. Ross Schlabach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apprenticeOF Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Just thinking that I don't want to be the one trying tap the small threads in stainless. Might be ok in a 303 free machining grade, but haven't seen that grade in sheet form. Even 303 would be tricky. That's probably one good reason for using brass or aluminum. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Stout Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Is that an argument for riveted reeds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP3 Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 No, but it is an endorsement for brass reeds -- the laser issue notwithstanding. Ross Schlabach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Or aluminium alloy. Most of the older concertinas with Al reed frames used plain non-alloyed aluminium which is rather soft. Modern alloys can be quite hard, at least as hard as brass, and accordion reed makers have no problem getting their al-alloy based reeds to sound loud and bright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Holder Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 Another possibility is wire EDM. That's what Wally Carroll uses very successfully and I don't think there's the same radius problem you described. He has even done titanium reed shoes but says that this metal takes far too long on the machine and breaks the wire a lot. Not worth it for the small weight saving. Good luck with your project. Ross Schlabach I did try that approach, but the company said that it would use far too much electrode and it would be very expensive. Wouldn't be a problem doing one at a time but they threw their hands up in horror at a whole sheet! Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Holder Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 Just thinking that I don't want to be the one trying tap the small threads in stainless. Might be ok in a 303 free machining grade, but haven't seen that grade in sheet form. Even 303 would be tricky. That's probably one good reason for using brass or aluminum. Doug Good point. I can't imagine how many M1.4 taps I'd get through in the process. I think Brass is definitely the fave, if only it weren't for the fact that lasers don't like it much. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken_Coles Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I recall the late Rich Morse describing many experiments (with just about every machinist in his area) to make reed shoes by various methods. He may have discussed some of this in the archived threads here. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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