Singer looking for concertina as a secondary accompaniment

[wellspringsing]

bs''d

 

Hello concertinists!

 

I'm a singer (female, soprano) and harpist. A solo performer, singer-songwriter. I think the concertina is my second-favorite instrument, and I'd really like to get one as a secondary accompaniment instrument, like for three songs per album/performance. My time is really limited, so I really don't have time, as I'd like, to learn a new instrument in great depth. Also, very limited budget. So don't encourage me to get a more expensive one-it's not happening right now.

 

So, I'm looking at two concertinas on Ebay. One is a 30-button Bonetti Anglo, and the other a 30-button English. Given that I'm a singer (with a high voice) and songwriter, which one would suit my purposes better? Or does it not matter a whole lot? Is it much harder to learn the English?

 

Long live the concertina!

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

 

Thanks!

[Ken_Coles]

Every concertina system (these two and all the types of duets) has been used by someone to do great song accompaniment. Learning curve (IMO) is so individual that we can't tell you what system will be easiest for you. Mastery takes as long as any instrument, so if you are content to stay with a very basic playing level, the decision may be more arbitrary (since I've already told you that I can't tell you!). I can do many simple partial chords (and did for years) on a 20-button C/G anglo, and I do a song in Bb minor with a 30-button C/G anglo.

 

Mind you, my many colleagues will join us, with different opinions. Take us fanatics all with a grain of salt.

 

Have fun,

Ken

[Reed Bellows]

As a singer, I would recommend the English for one specific reason: bellows direction.

 

With an Anglo, you'll be having to remember which way to push/pull the bellows in order to get the proper note, whereas with an English, all you have to remember is where the buttons are located. Since you're somewhat pressed for time, it'll be quicker to learn. Also, if you're accompanying yourself, you'll have less to think about as you play and sing simultaneously.

 

Although, others may have differing opinions...such as Jody Kruskal, who is a wonderful Anglo player and frequents these forums.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Reed Bellows

[wellspringsing]

As a singer, I would recommend the English for one specific reason: bellows direction.

 

With an Anglo, you'll be having to remember which way to push/pull the bellows in order to get the proper note, whereas with an English, all you have to remember is where the buttons are located. Since you're somewhat pressed for time, it'll be quicker to learn. Also, if you're accompanying yourself, you'll have less to think about as you play and sing simultaneously.

 

Although, others may have differing opinions...such as Jody Kruskal, who is a wonderful Anglo player and frequents these forums.

 

Thanks both, for your responses--I find them interesting and informative! Anyone else who wants to comment please feel free!

[Jody Kruskal]

As a singer, I would recommend the English for one specific reason: bellows direction.

 

With an Anglo, you'll be having to remember which way to push/pull the bellows in order to get the proper note, whereas with an English, all you have to remember is where the buttons are located. Since you're somewhat pressed for time, it'll be quicker to learn. Also, if you're accompanying yourself, you'll have less to think about as you play and sing simultaneously.

 

Although, others may have differing opinions...such as Jody Kruskal, who is a wonderful Anglo player and frequents these forums.

Dear WellSpringSing,

 

Since I've been invited to offer a dissenting opinion, I guess I'll have to oblige... only, I don't really have one. Except to say that the question of which system will appeal to you is pure guess work. These pages are full of stories where someone says "I tried ________ (system of your choice) and struggled for years, then I got ________ (system of your choice) and it was so easy." So my advice is to try all the systems that you are considering. For instance, you could rent two concertinas for a month and have a go at both. Then you will be better informed about what will work for your abilities, proclivities and goals.

[hjcjones]

I also disagree with Reed Bellows. To players of other systems, the push-pull nature of an anglo seems difficult, and an unnecessary complication. However, to a player it becomes instinctive - the bellows direction is as much part of playing as pressing the buttons. All three systems are used to accompany singing with great effect. As Jody says, it is much more important to find the system which suits you.

[Ransom]

The English players say that Anglos are confusing because you have to figure out which direction to move the bellows. The Anglo players say that English is confusing because you have to figure out which hand your note is on. The duet players are over there grinning smugly at all of us, but duet systems is a whole 'nother mess! =)

 

If you can't get your hands on one of each to try out, maybe listen to recordings of song accompaniment on each system and see which one tends to produce arrangements that you like the sound of.

[Crane Driver]

I would say that rather than choosing a concertina system on how easy it is (perceived to be) to learn/play, go for the one that produces the music you want. Listen to someone like Keith Kendrick, who plays both English and Anglo. The two systems produce quite different effects (there'd be no point in playing both if they didn't). As someone who plays neither, my impression is that the English tends to favour smoother music with melodic embellishment while the Anglo tends to give more bounce and harmony. It is possible to play an English more like an Anglo and vice versa, but why? If it's just going to be your second instrument, you'll want to go with the style that comes most naturally to it. Getting an instrument that is easier to learn but ultimately is the wrong instrument, won't get you anywhere.

 

Of course we duet players are smug - why shouldn't we be? ;-}

 

Andrew

[Irene S.]

 

 

Of course we duet players are smug - why shouldn't we be? ;-}

 

Andrew

 

Careful - range wars have been started with less!! LOL

[Reed Bellows]

 

Dear WellSpringSing,

 

Since I've been invited to offer a dissenting opinion, I guess I'll have to oblige... only, I don't really have one. Except to say that the question of which system will appeal to you is pure guess work. These pages are full of stories where someone says "I tried ________ (system of your choice) and struggled for years, then I got ________ (system of your choice) and it was so easy." So my advice is to try all the systems that you are considering. For instance, you could rent two concertinas for a month and have a go at both. Then you will be better informed about what will work for your abilities, proclivities and goals.

 

Just for clarification, I didn't mean to infer that you would have a contrasting opinion. Just that a player of a different system might have a different viewpoint, and you were the first forum member that came to mind.

 

See you next month in Palestine!

[Brian McGee]

I think another point to be considered for someone who's "type-agnostic" at this point is the insane prices for good anglos these days compared to english OR duet. When comparing instruments of about the same quality, I'm seeing prices for anglos about 3 times higher.

 

Brian

[Anglo-Irishman]

Given that I'm a singer (with a high voice) and songwriter, which one would suit my purposes better? Or does it not matter a whole lot? Is it much harder to learn the English?

 

Hello, wellspringsing,

 

As a singer who uses several accompaniment instruments (5-string banjo, autoharp, concertina and occasionally guitar) I have to jump in on this one!

 

The pitch of your voice is important if the instrument in question is limited in the number of keys you can play (or play easily) on it. My mother was a soprano, and sang to an old, single-key diatonic autoharp in G. When I inherited this instrument, I was unable to use it, because I'm a baritone, and most folk songs fall naturally within my range in C or D (there are a few that suit me in G, but not many). So I had to upgrade to a chromatic autoharp.

 

The concertina that I sing to is an Anglo in C/G. The Anglo is good for accompaniment, because chords and harmonies come naturally to it. And you can do some chord changes just by changing bellows direction, so the dexterity of your fingers in not taxed so much as on other instruments, including the other concertina systems. And for self-accompaniment, you need an instrument that doesn't take up all your concentration just to get the notes out!

 

The down side for you might be the keys. The C/G Anglo provides easy harmonies only in C and G, with rather more capabilities (e.g. modulating up a fifth) in C - so it's ideal for me. If you sing more in G, this would not be so optimal, but there are Anglos in G/D, where G is the slightly stronger (easier) suit.

 

Some time ago I decided to explore more keys on the concertina, and bought a Crane Duet. This requires more dexterity than the Anglo, because you have to press different buttons for each note or chord, but you can build quite nice accompaniments ad hoc if you learn "chord shapes" in the way guitarists do.

 

You can, of course, play harmonised melodic intros and outros and instrumental verses in songs on both systems.

 

In short, the Anglo is easy to play in its "home keys" (usually C and G), but quickly gets more difficult the more sharps and flats you have. The Crane takes somewhat longer to learn, even in C major, but the keys farther away from C major are not that much more difficult.

 

As to your budget requirements: there are cheap, new Anglos available, but Cranes are only available as vintage instruments. However, a small, 35-button Crane should be enough for simple accompaniment (and is fully chromatic), and would be among the cheapest vintage concertinas.

 

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

John

[new english]

Hi although I’m a novice to concertinas (but i,ve been playing gypsy jazz ragtime guitar for over thirty years)the duet I have is perfectly suited to accompanying a solo performer I’m so grateful I was steered towards the duet it’s a complete jazz box ,Mr. McCann was obviously a genius and completely ahead of his time ,its uncanny how the buttons that initially appeared almost random lend themselves to jazz standards arraignments ,the chords on the various tutors are a good starting place but I realised that various inversions and substitutions fall comfortably under finger and after a little recalibrating of brain and fingers LOL even quite complicated ragtime pieces are possible I’m currently working on nuages using a gypsy jazz guitar arraignment

intro B Bb F# F over Em7-5/Bb chord

my bass player cant believe how big the concertina sounds and I’m using just the one condenser mic through the pa biased to the right to even out the chord/melody but for some explicable reason i find myself drawn to playing jesus joy of man's desiring LOL

 

It was suggested to me that I would probably eventually need a 55k Maccann or 57 but mastering this 46 buttons is going to take at least a lifetime

tony